so on the flipside

General discussion regarding the Tau Empire beta.
Arctourus
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so on the flipside

Postby Arctourus » 09 September 2016, 18:57

commented yesterday that I loved playing the tau....spent some time exploring the ships in solo with the intent of moving on to multi player today. Since I wanted to see how they stacked up, I chose to play as the imperial navy. I was hoping that my existing admirals would be there, but no such luck, so I started from scratch.

That stunk.

While I've played almost exclusively tau players, they've all been pretty high level. Thus far, Tau walks all over me. Not to say I'm the best player around, which I'm certainly not, I'm competent at least. As my navy continues to grow and upgrade, I still have trouble making much headway against the tau...the greater good may be a little too good. Has anyone else had much luck using other factions against the tau in this beta? The tau didn't seem too overpowered yesterday, but I'm starting to see some deficiencies now.

maybe it's because the tau "broadsides" can all fire forward at the same time, making you essentially face both sides of the ship at once?

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Bosie
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Bosie » 09 September 2016, 20:26

My Chaos fleet wrecks the Tau. Lost the first game, so loaded up the Tau to check out the ships and powers. Went back to Chaos and had a 100% win rate. Lots of salt from Tau as they could do little to my MoT augur disrupting fleet.
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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 09 September 2016, 20:40

Bosie wrote:My Chaos fleet wrecks the Tau. Lost the first game, so loaded up the Tau to check out the ships and powers. Went back to Chaos and had a 100% win rate. Lots of salt from Tau as they could do little to my MoT augur disrupting fleet.


Shhhh. Stop sharing our secrets or we'll have another "Tzinch mark OP!" thread.
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Bosie
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Bosie » 09 September 2016, 20:59

Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Bosie wrote:My Chaos fleet wrecks the Tau. Lost the first game, so loaded up the Tau to check out the ships and powers. Went back to Chaos and had a 100% win rate. Lots of salt from Tau as they could do little to my MoT augur disrupting fleet.


Shhhh. Stop sharing our secrets or we'll have another "Tzinch mark OP!" thread.


Yeah, I had plenty of "HACKER" last night with it. Was funny as fuck.
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Adrmial Seraph
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Adrmial Seraph » 09 September 2016, 21:10

Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Bosie wrote:My Chaos fleet wrecks the Tau. Lost the first game, so loaded up the Tau to check out the ships and powers. Went back to Chaos and had a 100% win rate. Lots of salt from Tau as they could do little to my MoT augur disrupting fleet.


Shhhh. Stop sharing our secrets or we'll have another "Tzinch mark OP!" thread.


That's because it is op. The entire MoT fleet is designed around 1 thing: not letting your opponent play the game. Eldar can do it too but at least they take a reasonable amount of skill since you're doing pulsar runs with 3 different ships from different angles and are hard countered by Recon Beacon without the need to strip shields 1st. MoT chaos is pretty easy and simple to play. Enemy gets vision? Activate Disrupt or MoT. It wears out? Activate more Disrupt or MoT.

Enemy boosting to your projected location? Stasis Bomb spam to keep them away from you, doesn't matter if they end up in the stasis bomb as long as it influences their movements.

You don't have to split your fleet, you don't have to manage more than 1 activation at a time and if you set priority your lances will burst down singular targets. The only other fleet that's as easy as that is Nova Orks and they're not nearly as viable.

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Bosie
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Bosie » 09 September 2016, 21:23

Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Bosie wrote:My Chaos fleet wrecks the Tau. Lost the first game, so loaded up the Tau to check out the ships and powers. Went back to Chaos and had a 100% win rate. Lots of salt from Tau as they could do little to my MoT augur disrupting fleet.


Shhhh. Stop sharing our secrets or we'll have another "Tzinch mark OP!" thread.


That's because it is op. The entire MoT fleet is designed around 1 thing: not letting your opponent play the game. Eldar can do it too but at least they take a reasonable amount of skill since you're doing pulsar runs with 3 different ships from different angles and are hard countered by Recon Beacon without the need to strip shields 1st. MoT chaos is pretty easy and simple to play. Enemy gets vision? Activate Disrupt or MoT. It wears out? Activate more Disrupt or MoT.

Enemy boosting to your projected location? Stasis Bomb spam to keep them away from you, doesn't matter if they end up in the stasis bomb as long as it influences their movements.

You don't have to split your fleet, you don't have to manage more than 1 activation at a time and if you set priority your lances will burst down singular targets. The only other fleet that's as easy as that is Nova Orks and they're not nearly as viable.



Eldar need a single favor to make their ships go furtive, just like Chaos. Eldar can also shoot furtive targets, with torps and pulsars, whilst Chaos can't. Stasis bombs don't stop Eldar, at worst if they do get caught they can boost right out of them.
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Adrmial Seraph
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Adrmial Seraph » 09 September 2016, 22:05

Bosie wrote:
Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Ahzek Ahriman wrote:
Shhhh. Stop sharing our secrets or we'll have another "Tzinch mark OP!" thread.


That's because it is op. The entire MoT fleet is designed around 1 thing: not letting your opponent play the game. Eldar can do it too but at least they take a reasonable amount of skill since you're doing pulsar runs with 3 different ships from different angles and are hard countered by Recon Beacon without the need to strip shields 1st. MoT chaos is pretty easy and simple to play. Enemy gets vision? Activate Disrupt or MoT. It wears out? Activate more Disrupt or MoT.

Enemy boosting to your projected location? Stasis Bomb spam to keep them away from you, doesn't matter if they end up in the stasis bomb as long as it influences their movements.

You don't have to split your fleet, you don't have to manage more than 1 activation at a time and if you set priority your lances will burst down singular targets. The only other fleet that's as easy as that is Nova Orks and they're not nearly as viable.



Eldar need a single favor to make their ships go furtive, just like Chaos. Eldar can also shoot furtive targets, with torps and pulsars, whilst Chaos can't. Stasis bombs don't stop Eldar, at worst if they do get caught they can boost right out of them.


If you mean if you're not moving, you're not detected...well that doesn't help Eldar out too much. The bonus to damage while not being revealed is nice for nebula parking but any reasonable player carries probes/beacons for detect. Especially vs Eldar.

Eldar also take considerably more skill to do that with, if you screw up even once you can lose the game because your ship will take significant damage or die and you're managing 3 ships heavily to pull it off since clumping Eldar leads to nasty stuff like Novas landing and such.

Chaos don't really have this issue, they can take a few hits, they're forgiving and robust in a MoT Lance fleet. MoT also is a lot better and "you're not allowed to play" over being stealthed while stationary because of fleet/playstyle synergy.

Not that it matters, MoT lance fleets are pretty imbalanced whether people agree or not, Eldar can be just as bad but Eldar have counters that actually work and work consistently, they also need to take an upgrade to make their perma stealth strategy remotely viable.

Arctourus
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Arctourus » 10 September 2016, 11:42

overall, I like favors that give you a buff without letting you destroy all enemies with impunity. I like the MoT ability to stealth, but I don't boat it so it's more of a strategic once every few minutes usage instead of a whole match deal breaker. The ability to make it one is in itself a flaw and should be addressed. I think that favors should provide small buffs to the ships that use them instead of massively changing the way the game is played. We've addressed MoT, but how about the pathfinder assault ability for the altioc (I know, spelling) favor for the eldar? Unlimited range unstoppable lightning strike. Sure, you might counter with super high troop values, but all of your ships can't use all of their precious points and upgrades to defend against boarding actions only. Fighting against a good eldar player, trying to manuever to cut off even one of their ships, and every few minutes having 3-4 strikes from all over the map immediately hit a ship and cripple it is more or less game breaking.

I'll be honest, I feel that the favors for space marines are fairly bland, and since they can only be used once each, they are pretty useless. One will give one ship a huge boost in upgrades if you put most of your troop points into one area, one will slightly buff the entire fleet IF you micromanage good enough, and I can't even remember what the other two do because they are fairly pointless overall. Personally, if they could rethink some of these favors to sort of equalize their value, I think that would make the game much better. If not, maybe making EVERY faction only able to use a favor once instead of multiple times may fix a lot of the problems with favor abuse.

So would removing favors altogether though, I guess.

I do think that the favors for the Tau are pretty balanced. Yeah, the railgun gives you a powerful attack, but it takes skill to use. Some of the other factions can break the game just by making your favor ability auto fire.

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Imperator5
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Imperator5 » 10 September 2016, 11:51

I think the railgun should not pierce shield and than it would be okey. Even now its only a problem if spammed, like Nova.
The Aircaste one is pretty fair.
The Firecaste one... I'm not sure the sureway critical fire is a good idea, Tau are not supposed to outboard most races.
Water caste: Maybe the Nicassar ship is too much, but its not that OP.


Otherwise, tho two SM favours that are useful are actually good.

One can give up to 4 upgrade slots to a battle barge, the other boost every special order in your fleet.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

Arctourus
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Re: so on the flipside

Postby Arctourus » 10 September 2016, 13:40

I'm curious if the fire caste favor for boarding actions works with the upgrade that lets bombers inflict one boarding action with each successful attack. That would be a bit too much.

Yeah, the additional four upgrades to a single unit (lets face it, battle barge) is great, but the buff to the entire fleet? Well, it only works part of the time. Would be a much better favor if it was a constant low grade buff instead of, well, what it is now. I admit, it's been a while since I used it, but I remember my impressions were pretty poor at the time.

I liked the idea of the favor that could cause a ship to mutiny, but I've never actually seen it land successfully.


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