What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

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NickEcho
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What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby NickEcho » 12 April 2016, 17:11

What purpose does it serve? A sense of progress, achievement when you unlock a new ship? Gets old after a couple of admirals. Someone might also enjoy the RPG like elements of starting from scratch and building ones fleet. I can agree with that to some extent.

The other side. It is not necessary, potentially harmful in multiplayer. This system of forcing player to start at the bottom and earn resources to unlock and upgrade the fleet adds needless grind, and greatly limits the fleet variety one could build.
An example: I would like to try a brawler ork fleet, a carrier based Imperium, lance chaos, hit and run eldar, etc. All factions have many different available play styles. Yet I can not. I must grind every single time I make a new admiral. I don't have that much time. Even if I did, I doubt I would want to spend so much time grinding. Many can relate.

Lets get rid of it. What would happen? All races, all ships, all builds and play styles become instantly available.Got wrecked by that nurgle fleet? Go build one. Friend is boasting about his unstoppable Imperium favor cobra spam? Feel free to try that in the next game. Want to try a new combo with a friend in a 2v2? Don't have to spend hours, if not days building the admiral you have in mind. NO MORE GRINDING.
Furthermore, the differences in skill will become the major deciding factor, no more upgrade/favor gap. It will become easier to get a game.

I am sure this would be a major positive change in multiplayer. Lets leave the RPG elements for the campaign.

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Zjiin
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby Zjiin » 12 April 2016, 17:19

NickEcho wrote:I am sure this would be a major positive change in multiplayer.


No it wouldn't. It would just lead to everyone playing the OP fleet build of the week. Plus having everything handed to you on a plate gets boring fast.

Multiplayer already has enough problems the devs need to work on without creating anymore issues for themselves.

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Deuzerre
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby Deuzerre » 12 April 2016, 17:20

It brings something to the game: A sense of progression.
Grinding, as long as it doesn't seem "unfair" to the player, makes them stay longer. This is even more true in a game like this one, where battles are short but intense, and there's a rather small choice of units to control.
If there wasn't any of that "grind" which is... Almost well tuned in this game, players would only stay for a couple of battles. Instead, they're thinking "man, Only 700 more renown and I'll be able to give this favour to that battleship".

If anything, I think renown should have an "end game" importance, because that's the only thing lacking: Once you have "everything" you ever wanted for your fleet and it is set as you actually like it... Renown becomes useless.

I beleive it should be possible to keep on using renown for something, late game. Maybe "fleet" upgrades, like "repairs are shorter/cost cheaper", maybe total fleet overhauls (Want to play world eaters? Get all your ships to mark of Khorne and you'll have reduced cooldowns on lightning strikes and anything linked to boarding!).
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NickEcho
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby NickEcho » 12 April 2016, 17:25

Op builds are a problem of the balance. If any kind of a fleet is instantly available, it will mean that you can build a counter fleet to the "OP fleet of the week" instantly. Unlocking the same thing over and over and over again gets old fast. There is a reason why no non free to play games have this kind of system. At least none that I could think off.

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Bludfist
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby Bludfist » 12 April 2016, 17:25

I prefer it was like this, renown grind should be only in SP, like you said there are some clear advantages and would also solve some key issues like for example people with only a few upgraded ships being put vs people with lvl 10 ships with max upgrades, favors and stuff.


i never got the whole "progression" argument because renown reaches a point once you reach max admiral rank where all you use it for is respecing and repairs and thats as far as "progression" goes, its not real progression, just an artificial limiter on playstyles
the admiral rank badges are more real progression than the renown requirement

id rather we had all the options readily available and then we could pick and choose what we want like TT, and last i checked that did not "get boring fast"

having renown requirements will not stop people from playing the "op fleet build of the week" it will only slow them from playing/fielding it for a day or 2
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Dreadspectre
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby Dreadspectre » 12 April 2016, 17:29

No thanks, I like burning Renown to make sure I have all my ships available every game I play in the event some got trashed last game.

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NickEcho
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby NickEcho » 12 April 2016, 17:32

Deuzerre wrote:It brings something to the game: A sense of progression.
...Only 700 more renown and I'll be able to give this favour to that battleship...

If anything, I think renown should have an "end game" importance, because that's the only thing lacking: Once you have "everything" you ever wanted for your fleet and it is set as you actually like it... Renown becomes useless.


Not when you are unlocking that favor for that battlleship for the 5th time. Renown should not be focus of the multiplayer. Having freedom to play as you like without grinding for it should be whats keeping the player. This is not a mmo/f2p game.

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speigas
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby speigas » 12 April 2016, 17:34

1. Grindless multiplayer would be wonderful step towards more competitive games.
2. Also it would inspire creativity in fleet design.
3. Improve ship-upgrade-favor balance long term, because testing would easy.
4. Multiplayer would be more skill based, instead of OP build exploit based.
5. Multiplayer would become more accessible for newcomers.
6. Freedom of choice is always welcome and is so french... "Liberté, égalité, fraternité"

...

We could agree on combination...
1. Grind for admiral levels and customization options if you like achieving in virtual gaming instead of real life.
2. Or grind for statistics.
3. Or grind so you can grind.

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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby Avenwing » 12 April 2016, 17:37

NickEcho wrote:
Deuzerre wrote:It brings something to the game: A sense of progression.
...Only 700 more renown and I'll be able to give this favour to that battleship...

If anything, I think renown should have an "end game" importance, because that's the only thing lacking: Once you have "everything" you ever wanted for your fleet and it is set as you actually like it... Renown becomes useless.


Not when you are unlocking that favor for that battlleship for the 5th time. Renown should not be focus of the multiplayer. Having freedom to play as you like without grinding for it should be whats keeping the player. This is not a mmo/f2p game.

Why do you have multiple admirals for the same race? Seems rather pointless.

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Deuzerre
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Re: What if we got rid of renown in multiplayer?

Postby Deuzerre » 12 April 2016, 17:39

As I said in a part of the post you skimmed, repetitiveness would bring boredome and a very fast death to the game because it has:
- Few units
- Short matches (repetitiveness)

If there was no renown, the game would have to be completely overhauled, and as a small dev team, they can't do that. Let's be realist here: As much as I'd love for the game to be "more like tabletop" with the ability to fine-tune your fleet from the start to the end, with every bit and bob fine-tuned... It's not going to happen and it'll be detrimental to the game in its current state.
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