Strategy: player mistakes

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Lothair
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Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Lothair » 05 April 2016, 08:07

Hi guys, I just wanted to address some mistakes that I noticed. I play all three factions, and can't wait for the Eldar BTW :)

1. Building and upgrading fleets just for Cruiser Clash

A lot of people complain about different scenarios that they are an "auto loss". IMO they are not, it just depends on how you build your fleet which increases or in most cases decreases your chances to win a particular scenario. It's probably because you begin with just Cruiser Clash and people at the start set their mind just to "kill maim and burn", which later may end up, as prof. Mordin used to say "problematic".

You need stealth ships, you need runners, you need persuers and you need damage dealers and honestly - you need good escort squadrons. Otherwise you end up on the forum complaining that some scenario is extremely broken ;)
With just Cruiser Clash it may end up a game of just mathematics and learning one type of circumstances to win.

2. Not spreading your fleet in certain scenarios
I rarely see people spreading their fleets, especially against the Orks. People complain that orks are too tanky, hard to kill etc. They are - from the FRONT! :o Split your fleet, make him choose direction and kick him in the butt, where he has 25 armour. I get most of my wins with Orks, because people let me close in from the front and focus my skills against the entire fleet. In data recovery against a good player with a stealth ship you NEED to spread out to catch the guy.

3. Not using escorts enough.
Strange story - you can win 600/700 point games with a cruiser and two light cruisers :mrgreen: , but a ton of speced escorts. Somehow lots of people ignore whole squadrons of escorts. I use Swords, Idolators (health, shields and not showing up with special maneuvers) or Savages (guess why...). People tend to ignore them and this sometimes leads to their death.

4. Not focussing on the objective

Winning gets renown. Period. Some players just go for the kill and waste their energy on a single cruiser and some escorts instead of chasing the objective.

5. Losing is fine! Whining is not...
The game is set up at the moment in such a fashion that losing is not a huge problem. I had awesome brawling games in which me and my opponent ended up with having a single ship at the end and the rest destroyed or heavily damages. It doesn't stop you to win thee next two games with mainly an escort fleet :] This is what makes the game awesome, but somehow as in most communities people rage about losing.

6. Not using fighter squadrons
Nothing protects against torps and assault bombs like fighters. Most imperials I see start using Carriers at the battleship level with the Emperor and hae problems with Chaos Carriers and Ork boarding torps.

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Lothair
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Lothair » 05 April 2016, 20:00

Bump.

Any other common mistakes?

Tirak
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Tirak » 05 April 2016, 20:04

Could you explain more about escorts? How many to bring, what sort of things to spec them for, what their role is ect? I've thought about bringing them, but in order to match the firepower of even another CL, i'd have to bring 4 or more, and it's difficult to justify based on my current understanding of the game since Dauntless' cost 105 points.

Zephyranthes
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Zephyranthes » 05 April 2016, 20:18

Last I checked Escorts were in the range of 2-4 DPS, and CLs are like... 6-10? (raw numbers, not including range) I don't pay too much attention to non Chaos and I don't use Escorts too much past having a 7500 scan range scout.

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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Tirak » 05 April 2016, 20:24

I'm not at home so I can't double check these numbers, but I believe the Lance on a Dauntless is 24dmg per shot, vs the 3 of the Firestorm's light lance. Given their weak hulls and mediocre shields, keeping them at range seems the safest option, and for that the Firestorm's lance is better than the additional light macro cannon battery on the Sword. For convoy intercepts for a while I was using 2 Dauntless CLs and 2 Firestrom FF, but that only lasted a short time before I moved up and out of that rank. Dart in, split them into divisions and run in on the convoys from the sides. I've never seen much use for them in Cruiser Clash, Data Recovery (I don't believe they have boarding capability) or Planetary/Station Assault.

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Lothair
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Lothair » 05 April 2016, 20:25

Sure. I've noticed the effectiveness of them after I lost most of my fleet in an Epic battle and had to use lots of escorts.

Usually, depending on the objective, I place my Line ships and Escorts like this:

L L L---------------------- e e e e
--------------------------- e------e

I try to engage the opponent with my cruisers slightly faster than wth the escorts, then the opponent is really focused on the cruisers because of their dps and abilities. Brace for Impact or do other shennaningans and in the same time use all escorts to target one of the opposing ships you want to destroy. Typically, Prow, 3k, auto on repair and auto on Lock On. If one of the enemy ships decided to shoot the escorts, Brace for Impact with the first one. Try to AAF to stick to that 3k range.

With Orkz I use the above tactic (to stop the enemy from being surrounded) or place them behind the Cruisers as a second line vs Imps or Orks, but usually I try to pincer against Chaos.

Most people are extremely focused on your cruisers, which can mitigate damage, kite, repair and focus fire on another enemy ship.

I addition, If you need to chase someone down, or attack a convoy, Taunt is useless against a squadron of 4-6 Escorts.

What I use:

Chaos: Idolators: extra Hull, Extra Shields, + No Reveal with special maneuvers. (you can easilly take other upgrades).
Orks: Savages: extra speed, extra hull, 3k Armour Piercing
Imps: Swords (I loved them on the TT, Firestorms are also awesome): 3k Armour Piercing, Extra Hull, + anything you want really...

Most of the time I prefer 3-4 heavilly managed ships I can pay 95% attention to + 4-6 Escorts than 5-6 ships when things geet really close and nasty. + You don't care next round and can easier recycle your fleet in case you lose.

Zephyranthes
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Zephyranthes » 05 April 2016, 20:35

Iconoclast, 3 DPS

Idolator, 2 DPS + 1 DPS Lance

Infidel, 2 DPS + 2x Torps

Amusingly all the Escorts have 270 front missile pods, when I think every CL+ pod is a 360? Probably so you don't have a kiting fleet of little annoyances bogging you down.

Cobra, 1 DPS + 2x Torps

Firestorm, 2 DPS + 1 DPS Lance

Sword, 4 DPS

All 6k ranges. Icono and Cobra are cheaper and flimsy, Sword is 4 DPS but it's also all Macros, yada yada. I think someones mentioned that range upgrades don't work on these things? But you can get 3 upgrades and while I wouldn't say use them as fodder, they can be a nice source of semi passive DPS while your opponent is likely focused on your bigger ships.

Meanwhile for 2.5-3x the points, you get CLs with an extra 400 hull. Hellbringer Mk2 is 6 DPS of Macros and 2 DPS Lances (9k/12k range), while the Dauntless is 8 DPS of Macros and a 3 DPS Lance (6k/6k range). Considering the Lance of the Dauntless is only prow, you have double the Macro DPS, 400 extra hull, and you are paying 42 for the Escort and 105 for the CL. So sure, Escorts are not entirely worthless or just fodder.

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Jether
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Jether » 05 April 2016, 20:39

For data recovery you just need a fast ship to run away in. For every space station assualt and convoy you will lose no matter what because all your opponent needs is 2 or more light cruisers of any faction to ram the stations or transports and leave. There is no game mode other then cruiser clash that matters at the moment so building a fleet around it is the only thing you need to do.
Emperors Elite Testing Team

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Lothair
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Lothair » 05 April 2016, 21:11

Jether wrote:For data recovery you just need a fast ship to run away in. For every space station assualt and convoy you will lose no matter what because all your opponent needs is 2 or more light cruisers of any faction to ram the stations or transports and leave. There is no game mode other then cruiser clash that matters at the moment so building a fleet around it is the only thing you need to do.


I fully disagree. If you spread you can catch a runner. You can win 600pts games of Convoy Defence by tricking your opponent and proper ramming/micro warp jumps. This is already not a game of "Genereal Statements" like X beats Y, or Y always accomplishes X.

Station Defence is tricky with some faction vs faction pairings, I'll give you that, but IMO none of the scenarios are as unbalanced as you state it.

Zephyranthes
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Re: Strategy: player mistakes

Postby Zephyranthes » 05 April 2016, 21:13

It was disturbing how Breakthrough was going fairly well for a Chaos player that did nothing but charge down the Turrets and then try to run to the exit point. It didn't work but it was sort of effective I guess. Game modes need a good bit of balancing.


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