Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak, make its guns 18 damage

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Imperator5
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Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak, make its guns 18 damage

Postby Imperator5 » 30 March 2016, 11:32

Originally I made this post earlier, but now it no longer contains NDA-related info thanks to the newest patch, so I'm releasing this to public. Thanks to Vanhoven for DPS and armour value tips.

News: Carl pointed it out to me that Bombers now ignore armour to 25% too. I will have to update ALL values. This is a new stealth chaos buff.
He also said that the Desolator's broadsides fire twice as many lance shots. I'll make a new version of it to test it.


For those who don't want to read through it, I'll summarize what i learned:

-Retribution is quite underpowered in most situations compared to the other 3.
-Despoiler should ALWAYS be facing the target with the prow to use all that lance goodness.
-Desolator should NEVER be facing the enemy with its prow.
-Emperor should always face broadside, but we all know that already. But its not as important as for the other two.

The Retribution is the weakest when broadsiding a single target.
It is second worst in frontal attack, only outdoing the Desolator.
The only situation when the Retribution is not the worst choice is when all weapons are firing (very rare) when it manages to outdo the Emperor.
I did not count for the Emperor's utility with higher detection nor its lower speed, figuring they would equal each other out.

Desolator: Good at broadside, horrible at frontal attack. Good both against multiple and single targets.
Broadside: Good
Frontal: Bad
Single: Good
Multiple: Good

Despoiler: Good at any angle, against both multiple and single targets.
Broadside:Good
Frontal:Good
Single:Good
Multiple:Good

Retribution: Bad at broadside, does mediocre in frontal, bad against single target, mediocre against multiple ones.
Broadside: Bad
Frontal:Mediocre
Single: Bad
Multiple: Mediocre

Emperor: Good at any angle against single targets, but bad against multiple targets.
Broadside: Mediocre
Frontal: Good
Single: Good
Multiple: Bad

Here is all the math I did to reach this conclusion.

Hangars: 3 bomber per hangar, 30 dps each. 60 sec cooldown. 25% armour pierce.
Lances and torpedoes: 25% armour.

Chaos battleships:
150 speed
1200 hp
150shield
5 degrees turn
50% all around armour

RAW DPS VALUES against no armour with always hitting. Torpedoes and hangar-bombers used on cooldown.

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps
6 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps

Version 2:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps
6 merged battery with 2 dps lances each. = 12 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps
4x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps

Imperial battleships:
1200 hp
150shield
5 degrees turn

Retribution 237 pts:
150 speed
3x 1dps lances=3dps
6x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps
75% prow armour

Emperor 252 pts:
2X 4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps
112 speed.
50% armor all around

Now lets assume Lances, bombers and torpedoes reduce armor to 25% and Macros put armour at 50%. We assume 60% hit chance at 6k for macros, and 2 out of every 3 bombers making it for hangar calculations. For torpedoes, we assume 25% of them always hits when used on cooldown. This is prow, dorsal, and left and right broadsides firing.
This assumes they hit a 50% armour hull. Macrocannons should therefore do 0,6 x 0,5 dps against a hull, a 0.3 modifier

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.6 x0.5 = 0,54 dps
6 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,6 x0,5= 7.2 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Desolator 233 pts: (version 2 with more lances)
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.6 x0.5 = 0,54 dps
6 merged battery with 2 1dps lances each. = 12 dps x 0,75 = 9 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,6 x0,5= 7.2 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
4x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps x 0,6 x 0,5 = 4.8 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
6x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps x0.3 = 7.2 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
2X 4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps x 0,3 = 3,6 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,3= 2,7 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

So overall ship maximum DPS output at 6k range, without any upgrades, all weapons firing on cooldown:
Desolator: 13,74 dps 233/dps= 16,95 point per dps
Despoiler: 13,05 dps 252/dps= 19,3 point per dps
Retribution: 10,95 dps 237/dps= 21.6 point per dps
Emperor: 9,3 dps 252/dps= 27,1 point per dps.

Desolator with double lances: 18,24 dps = 12,77 points per dps.

This does change the Emperor a great deal, but not that much the others.

Full performance ranking:
1 Desolator
2 Despoiler
3 Retribution
4 Emperor

Lets try to do Forward and Broadside too.

Broadside, which means one either left OR right side and dorsal weapons plus hangars:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.6 x0.5 = 0,54 dps
3 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps/2= 2.25 dps
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,6 x0,5= 7.2 dps/2= 3.6 dps

Desolator 233 pts: (Double Lance)
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.6 x0.5 = 0,54 dps
3 merged battery with 2x 1dps lances each. = 6dps x 0.75 = 4,5
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,6 x0,5= 7.2 dps/2= 3.6 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
2x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps x 0,6 x 0,5 = 4.8/2= 2,4 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
3x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps x0.3 = 7.2/2=3,6 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps x 0,3 = 3,6/2= 1.8 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,3= 2,7 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

So broadsiding:
Desolator: 6.39 dps 233/6,39= 36,5 points per broadside damage.
Despoiler: 7,65 dps 252/7,65= 32,9 points per broadside damage.
Retribution: 5,85 dps 237/5,85= 40,5 points per broadside damage.
Emperor: 7,5 dps 252/7,5= 33,6 points per broadside damage.

Desolator 2: 8,64 26,96 point per dps

Broadsiding, the Retribution comes in last once more. At broadsiding where it should excel at. Even when considering point costs, it comes in last.

Broadside ranking:
1 Desolator
2 Despoiler
3 Emperor
4 Retribution

Now for Prow facing, which is prow and dorsal weapons plus hangars:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.6 x0.5 = 0,54 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,3= 2,7 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

Desolator: 2.04 dps 233/2,04= 114,2 points per frontal dps
Despoiler: 8,25 dps 252/8,25= 30,5 points per frontal dps
Retribution: 3,75 dps 237/3,75= 63,2 points per frontal dps
Emperor: 5,7 dps 252/5,7= 44,2 points per frontal dps

Frontal assault ranking:
1 Despoiler
2 Emperor
3 Retribution
4 Desolator

So even facing prow, the Retribution comes in lacklustre 3rd place in regards to dps.


Now that I did it for 6k, I want to do this for 9k and 12k too, because most battleships will be between these three ranges, as they are too slow to maintain 3k range (pathfinding needs to be looked at too) .


9K = 40% accuracy:

Now lets assume Lances and torpedoes reduce armor to 25% and Macros put armour at 50%. We assume 40% hit chance at 9k for macros, and 2 out of every 3 bombers making it for hangar calculations. For torpedoes, we assume 25% of them always hits when used on cooldown. This is prow, dorsal, and left and right broadsides firing.
This assumes they hit a 50% armour hull. Macrocannons should therefore do 0,4 x 0,5 dps against a hull, a 0.2 modifier
EDIT: Adjusting values to changed bomber ap from 50% to 25% armour.

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.4 x0.5 = 0,36 dps
6 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,4 x0,5= 4.8 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps


Desolator 233 pts: (Double lance )
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.4 x0.5 = 0,36 dps
6 merged battery with 2x 1dps lances each. = 12 dps x 0,75 = 9 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,4 x0,5= 4.8 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
4x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps x 0,4 x 0,5 = 3.2 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
6x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps x0.2 = 4.8 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
2X 4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps x 0,2 = 2,4 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,2= 1,8 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

So overall ship maximum DPS output at 9k range, without any upgrades, all weapons firing on cooldown:

Desolator: 11,16 dps
Despoiler: 11,45 dps
Retribution: 8,85 dps
Emperor: 7,2 dps

Desolator lanceX2 = 15,95

This does change the Emperor a great deal, but not that much the others. Chaos ships begin to get even better. No rank changes from 6k.
EDIT: The bomber buff has made the Despoiler and Desolator switch places.

Full performance ranking:
1 Desolator
2 Despoiler
3 Retribution
4 Emperor

Lets try to do Forward and Broadside too.

Broadside, which means one either left OR right side and dorsal weapons plus hangars:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.2 = 0,36 dps
3 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps/2= 2.25 dps
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 12dps x0,2= 2.4 dps


Desolator 233 pts: (Double lance)
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.2 = 0,36 dps
3 merged battery with 2x 1dps lances each. = 2x 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 12dps x0,2= 2.4 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
2x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 8dps x 0,2 = 1,6 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
3x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 12dps x0.2 = 2.4 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
4 1,5 dps macros= 6 dps x 0.2 = 1.2 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,2= 1,8 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

So broadsiding:
Desolator: 5.01
Despoiler: 6.85
Retribution: 4,65
Emperor: 6

Desolator double lance: 7,26 dps

Broadsiding, the Retribution comes in last once more. At broadsiding where it should excel at. Even when considering point costs, it comes in last. The change from 6k is that the Desolator got better than the Emperor.
EDIT: The bomber buff made the Emperor second again.

Broadside ranking:
1 Desolator
2 Despoiler
3 Emperor
4 Retribution

Now for Prow facing, which is prow and dorsal weapons plus hangars:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.6 x0.5 = 0,36 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,2= 1,8 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

Desolator: 1,86
Despoiler: 8,25
Retribution: 3.75
Emperor: 4,8

No changes in ranking, just Despoiler remained much better than everybody and Emperor got a bit weaker. I'll do 12k range another day, I'm tired, too much math, I'm afraid I'll make mistakes.

Now let us see at 12k range!
9K = 40% accuracy:

Now lets assume Lances and torpedoes reduce armor to 25% and Macros put armour at 50%. We assume 20% hit chance at 12k for macros, and 2 out of every 3 bombers making it for hangar calculations. For torpedoes, we assume 25% of them always hits when used on cooldown. This is prow, dorsal, and left and right broadsides firing. I'm getting very, very, very lenient with torpedoes here.
This assumes they hit a 50% armour hull. Macrocannons should therefore do 0,2x 0,5 dps against a hull, a 0.1 modifier

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0. = 0,18 dps
6 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,1= 2.4 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Desolator 233 pts: (double lance)
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0. = 0,18 dps
6 merged battery with2x 1dps lances each. = 12 dps x 0,75 = 9 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,1= 2.4 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
4x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps x 0,1 = 1.6 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
6x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps x0.1 = 2.4 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
2X 4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps x 0,1 = 1,2 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,1= 0,9 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

So overall ship maximum DPS output at 12k range, without any upgrades, all weapons firing on cooldown:

Desolator: 8,58 dps
Despoiler: 9,25 dps
Retribution: 6,15 dps
Emperor: 5,8 dps

Desolator double lance: 13,08

Chaos ships begin to get even better. No rank changes from 9k, but Despoiler gets closer to Desolator a bit.

EDIT: With the bomber buff, now Despoiler is still the best overall dps wise.

Full performance ranking:
1 Desolator
2 Despoiler
3 Retribution
4 Emperor

Lets try to do Forward and Broadside too.

Broadside, which means one either left OR right side and dorsal weapons plus hangars:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.1 = 0,18 dps
3 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps/2= 2.25 dps
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 12dps x0,1= 1.2 dps

Desolator 233 pts: (Double lance)
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.1 = 0,18 dps
3 merged battery with 1dps lances each. = 6 dps x 0,75 = 4,5 dps
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 12dps x0,1= 1.2 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
2x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 8dps x 0,1 = 0,8 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
3x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 12dps x0.1 = 1.2 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
4 1,5 dps macros= 6 dps x 0.1 = 0.6 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,1= 0,9 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

So broadsiding:
Desolator: 3,63
Despoiler: 6.05
Retribution: 3,45
Emperor: 4,5

Desolator double lance: 5,88

Broadsiding, the Retribution comes in last once more. At broadsiding where it should excel at. Even when considering point costs, it comes in last. Despoiler still best.

EDIT: With bomber buff, Emperor got ahead of Desolator.

Broadside ranking:
1 Despoiler
2 Desolator
3 Emperor
4 Retribution

Now for Prow facing, which is prow and dorsal weapons plus hangars:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.2 x0.5 = 0,18 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,1= 0,9 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

Desolator: 1,68
Despoiler: 8,25
Retribution: 3.75
Emperor: 3,9

This is with the player somehow managing to use torpedoes on cooldown and hit with 2 out of 8 shots.

EDIT: Carl told me that the Desolator may have twice the lances (We are not sure how the double barreled lance turrets count damage) and I have put that in. It makes the Retribution even worse.


Edit: I'll be doing all ships eventually so I just as well do 3k for battleships too. Its a rare event, but hey, it can happen with microwarp for a short time.

Now lets assume Lances, bombers and torpedoes reduce armor to 25% and Macros put armour at 50%. We assume 60% hit chance at 6k for macros, and 2 out of every 3 bombers making it for hangar calculations. For torpedoes, we assume 25% of them always hits when used on cooldown. This is prow, dorsal, and left and right broadsides firing.
This assumes they hit a 50% armour hull. Macrocannons should therefore do 0,8 x 0,5 dps against a hull, a 0.4 modifier

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.8 x0.5 = 0,72 dps
6 merged battery with 2dps lances each. = 12 dps x 0,75 = 9 dps
6 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,8 x0,5= 9.6 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
4x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps x 0,8 x 0,5 = 6.4 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
6x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps x0.4 = 9.6 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
2X 4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps x 0,4 = 4,8 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,4= 3,6 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

1st Desolator: 20.82
2nd Despoiler: 14,65
3rd Retribution: 13,35
4th Emperor: 11,4

So overall 3k DPS. I'm still assuming 2 out of every 8 torpedo hits if you use it on cooldown. At this range torps could hit more with aiming, but that would reduce broadside fire and may not be always available on cooldown and would mess everything up.

Now to broadside:

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.8 x0.5 = 0,72 dps
3 merged battery with 2dps lances each. = 12 dps x 0,75 = 9 dps/2= 4,5 dps
3 merged battery with assumed 4 turrets each (Currently bugged) = 6x4 dps = 24dps x0,8 x0,5= 9.6 dps/2= 4.8 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps
4x 8x 0,5 dps broadsides = 16dps x 0,8 x 0,5 = 6.4 dps/2 = 3.2 dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
6x 4 barrels 1dps macros= 24dps x0.4 = 9.6 dps/2 = 4,8 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
2X 4 1,5 dps macros= 12dps x 0,4 = 4,8 dps/2 = 2,4 dps
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,4= 3,6 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

Desolator: 10,02
Despoiler: 8,45
Retribution: 7,05
Emperor: 9

So Desolator, Emperor, Despoiler and Retribution when it comes to a 3k broadside battle. Desolator the lance boat wins.

Lets finally do prow.

Desolator 233 pts:
2 missile pods with 0,9 dps each = 1.8dps x0.8 x0.5 = 0,72 dps
45x8 prow torps with 45sec CD : 8dps 8 x 0,75 x0,25 = 6 dps /4 = 1,5 dps

Despoiler 252 pts:
4 dps prow lance = 4dps x 0.75 = 3 dps
3x 1dps dorsal lance = 3dps x 0.75 = 2.25 dps
4 ordenance bays 1,5 dps each= 6dps x2/3 x0,75 = 3dps

Retribution 237 pts:
3x 1dps lances=3dps x 0,75 = 2,25 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps

Emperor 252 pts:
3x 3 dps dorsal macros=9dps x 0,4= 3,6 dps
4 launch bays 1,5 dps each = 6dps x 2/3 x 0.75= 3 dps

Desolator: 2,22
Despoiler: 8,25
Retribution: 3,75
Emperor: 6,6

Nothing new to see here.

Added orks at 3k:
Let us check the dps:
Ork accuracy for kannonz: 0,5 at 3k. 0,5x0,5 = 0,25
Ork accuracy for gunz: 0,75 at 3k. 0,75x 0,5 = 0,375

WITH AP
Ork accuracy for kannonz: 0,5 at 3k. 0,5x0,75 = 0,375
Ork accuracy for gunz: 0,75 at 3k. 0,75x 0,75 = 0,5625


Let us check the dps:

Prow guns 2x3x0,375= 2,25
Prow mega kannon 144x2/12 x0,25= 6
broadside guns 4/2 x0,375= 0,75
broadside kannonz: 2x48x4/12x 0,25= 8

dps: 17
Broadside:8,75
Prow:8,25

Prow guns 2x3x0,375= 2,25
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps
Broadside kannonz:2x48x6/12x 0,25= 12

DPS: 15,75
Broadside:6
Prow:3,75

Prow zapps 3x 2dps x0,75= 4 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps
Broadside gunz= 2x3x2x0,375= 2,25x2= 4,5

DPS: 10
Broadside:2,25
Prow:5,5

Now with AP ammo:

Prow guns 2x3x0,5625= 3,375
Prow mega kannon 144x2/12 x0,375= 9
broadside guns 4/2 x0,5625= 1,125
broadside kannonz: 2x48x4/12x 0,375= 12

Full dps: 25,5
Broadside: 6,56 dps
Prow: 12,375 dps

Prow guns 2x3x0,5625= 3,375
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 1,5 dps
Broadside kannonz:2x48x6/12x 0,375= 18

DPS: 22,875
Broadside: 9
Prow: 4,875

Prow zapps 3x 2dps x0,75= 4 dps
45X8 prow torps with 45sec CD: 8dps x0.75 x 0.25 = 1,5 dps
Broadside gunz= 2x3x2x0,5625= 6,75

DPS: 12,25
Broadside: 3,375
Prow:5,5
Last edited by Imperator5 on 06 April 2016, 08:53, edited 9 times in total.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby Psykmoe » 30 March 2016, 11:40

Always struck me a little weird that the Retribution gets the same type plasma batteries as the Overlord and that one battery on the Tyrant. Sure, the Battleship has 3 batteries per side but still, they're basically cruiser-class weapons. Especially considering that Ravensburg posted that macro shots that rolled a hit can still be dodged, plasma macros just look lame. They're inaccurate and low damage.

The Emperor's one battery per side is at least a Heavy Plasma battery that combines the damage of a cruiser macro battery with the range of plasma.

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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby Shaftoe » 30 March 2016, 11:45

Trully, Retribution doesn't cost her points.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby CALiGeR190 » 30 March 2016, 11:49

I do agree that the Retribution needs work, I was very against the damage nerf in the Alpha from 24 to 12.
I would love to see damage brought up to 18 damage per shot, I reckon that would at least make the ship very good at broadsides and fighting single targets. Then maybe increase the bomber damage or gun damage to 24 on the Emperor, so both Imp Battleships can stand up to their chaos counterparts.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby Imperator5 » 30 March 2016, 11:58

CALiGeR190 wrote:I do agree that the Retribution needs work, I was very against the damage nerf in the Alpha from 24 to 12.
I would love to see damage brought up to 18 damage per shot, I reckon that would at least make the ship very good at broadsides and fighting single targets. Then maybe increase the bomber damage or gun damage to 24 on the Emperor, so both Imp Battleships can stand up to their chaos counterparts.


I can see why 24 was too much, but 12 is too little. Heavy handed nerf claims another victim. 18 would work out fine.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby Shaftoe » 30 March 2016, 11:59

CALiGeR190 wrote:I do agree that the Retribution needs work, I was very against the damage nerf in the Alpha from 24 to 12.
I would love to see damage brought up to 18 damage per shot, I reckon that would at least make the ship very good at broadsides and fighting single targets. Then maybe increase the bomber damage or gun damage to 24 on the Emperor, so both Imp Battleships can stand up to their chaos counterparts.


Or give assault boats half of their previous power once again.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby CALiGeR190 » 30 March 2016, 11:59

Imperator5 wrote:I can see why 24 was too much, but 12 is too little. Heavy handed nerf claims another victim. 18 would work out fine.

Yes, the fact it went down to 12 is what annoyed me.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby CALiGeR190 » 30 March 2016, 12:01

Shaftoe wrote:Or give assault boats half of their previous power once again.

I still use A-Boats to a respectable level of effectiveness with a Mars and Dictator in toe. Its just that that's literally your only option, the emperor struggles on her own, and her bombers are...underwhelming.
Her guns could stand for a damage or accuracy buff also.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby Shaftoe » 30 March 2016, 12:05

CALiGeR190 wrote:
Shaftoe wrote:Or give assault boats half of their previous power once again.

I still use A-Boats to a respectable level of effectiveness with a Mars and Dictator in toe. Its just that that's literally your only option, the emperor struggles on her own, and her bombers are...underwhelming.
Her guns could stand for a damage or accuracy buff also.


That was nerfed shall shine again. Though, let Devs be moderate this time.
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Re: Battleship DPS analysis - Retribution is horribly weak

Postby CALiGeR190 » 30 March 2016, 12:08

Shaftoe wrote:That was nerfed shall shine again. Though, let Devs be moderate this time.

I don't think A-Baots should be the main attraction of fleets again... Id prefer if they where just for holding targets in place by critting key systems as opposed to 'CRIT EVERYTHYTHINg' and basically make they floating hulks.
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