Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

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Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

Postby NickEcho » 31 May 2016, 10:03

Been trying overlord/retribution fleet with triple master gunners, targeting matrix, and lock on with lock on duration upgrade. That is roughly 6,5% chance to crit per penetrating hit, without lock on, with the plasma cannon. With lock on it should be 13%+. I can say that I am getting little no critical hits. I am killing ork and imperial ships with the cannon fire, and they die/warp out with maybe 1 critical hit scored. Today, I played a 2v2 versus 2 eldar players. 2 eclipse battle cruisers. Brought my retribution, thinking that the fragile trait would help me, with the master gunners and lock on. Little math: 6,5% to crit per shots +100% via lock o, making that 13% per shot, + eldar fragile trait which is +100% (they didn't have the fragile reduction upgrade, forgot the name), making 26%+ chance to score the critical hit per penetrating hit. Knocked one eclipse to ~30% health, the other one to 50%. Not a single critical hit. Meanwhile, they were getting 1-2 critical hits with their pulsars one me every run. One of the pulsars runs scored 2 fires and a hull breach, with the base critical chance of 8%, no lock on.

Is it not working properly?Or is my math wrong?

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Re: Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

Postby Kashtano » 31 May 2016, 13:09

First, ist is the nature of RNG that such things can happen.

Second, Belt Armour significantly reduces the amount of crits you'll see out in the field. It is used by most players, especially eldar.

Third, it might be that the crit buffs do stack, but not multiply. 3.75 (base chance) + 75% of 3.75 (master gunner) + 100% of 3.75 (Lock On) + 100% of 3.75 (Fragile) makes 14% chance to crit, not 26%. The same chance as an eldar pulsar with master gunner.

While each point is negligable on its own, together they make a difference. From my experience, macros crit quite reliably. Other people claim that lances (and pulsars with them) crit too rarely.

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Re: Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

Postby Crnyo » 31 May 2016, 13:49

Let me prove it conclusively that there is something wrong with critical damage.
Eclipse battlecruiser has 800 hitpoints. Plasma macro does 15 damage per hit.

If you destroy Eclipsethat means 54 shots have successfully landed.

Plasma macro with max gunner has 6,5% critical chance per shot. Fragile attribute increases critical chance by 50% (lets say Eldar is using upgrade). Our critical chance is now 9,75% per shot. With 54 shots chances for:

0 critical hits: 0,3%
1 critical hit : 2,3%
2 critical hits: 6,5%
3 critical hits: 12,2%
4 critical hits: 16,9%
5 critical hits: 18,2%
6 critical hits: 16,1%
7 critical hits: 11,9%
8 critical hits: 7,5%
9 critical hits: 4,1%

Chances for scoring 5 or more critical hits = 100% - 0,3% - 2,3% - 6,5% -12,2% -16,9% = 61,8%

Even if you are not using Lock On order you should be scoring at least 5 critical hits half of the time against Eldar battlecruiser.

PS: Probability chances are calculated using binomial distribution. I've used this applet: ... s/bin.html
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Re: Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

Postby randuir » 31 May 2016, 15:05

Not to nitpick, but did you check that none of its weapons had been destroyed? Those are not always as obvious as an engine destroyed or a knocked out generator.

That having been said, it does seem like something is going wrong here. Even with belt armour, the ship should have been critted a couple of times. All these calculations are of course assuming "critical chances" are a percentage. has this been confirmed anywhere?

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Re: Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

Postby NickEcho » 31 May 2016, 16:01

As I mentioned in the original post, I am using lock on with +50% upgrade, so most volleys were fired with lock on. When the eclipse was at the ~40% hp, I checked if it had any critical hits mitigating upgrades, nor any critical hits were taken. It didn't have belt armor or that fragile attribute reducing upgrade.

Also, I am not sure if its game engine problem, or just the tool tip, but the master gunner upgrade % to crit bonus is shown correctly on the weapon tooltip very rarely. Plasma macro battery as example: sometimes it is showing the base value 3.75, while sometimes it shows the upgraded 6.562. I also noticed, that while I am using lock on, the tooltip sometimes reverts to the base 3,75 value, even if at the start of the match it showed the correct 6.562.

Also, the pulsars are counted as lances, with the base chance to crit of 8. So with master gunner upgrade (+25% per level) they should be at 8->10->12->14.

I noticed that they aren't. See the image I just took.
Pulsars Master Gunner.jpg
Pulsars Master Gunner.jpg (136.51 KiB) Viewed 2188 times

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Re: Critical hits/master gunner seem bugged

Postby Imperator5 » 31 May 2016, 19:00

Tooltips are still wonky, yeah.

RNG is also wonky and unreliable in almost any situation, that's why I don't like it in games of any kind.

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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