Mont'ka vs Kauyon

General discussion regarding the Tau Empire beta.
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Imperator5
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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Imperator5 » 13 September 2016, 22:07

Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Beernchips wrote:Its relevant, other races don t have this free buff and Tau don t need a free advantage on vision over other factions. Otherwise Chaos should have 10kbase vision to help them have the best use of their long range weaponry?
The warpath is a good addition if it help you define a strategy, it is not good if it gives strong free buffs.
Mont ka is nearly having the SM traits on Tau (reduce enemy troop value + better chance to get the subsystem targetted), no need to bring Kauyon into "Tau have same accuracy as Eldar"
I would rather prefer the 2 warpath to bring buffs AND drawbacks and that you can also choose to NOT take a path.


I'm gonna say this one more time because you didn't quite get it the 1st time.

Different races are different. Comparing them is irrelevant within this context.


How is that a valid argument? Its a universal upgrade that provides the same usefulness to all factions. Its not like we are equoting Ork Mekboy upgrade to Eldar holofield in asteroids upgrade.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Adrmial Seraph » 13 September 2016, 22:36

Imperator5 wrote:
Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Beernchips wrote:Its relevant, other races don t have this free buff and Tau don t need a free advantage on vision over other factions. Otherwise Chaos should have 10kbase vision to help them have the best use of their long range weaponry?
The warpath is a good addition if it help you define a strategy, it is not good if it gives strong free buffs.
Mont ka is nearly having the SM traits on Tau (reduce enemy troop value + better chance to get the subsystem targetted), no need to bring Kauyon into "Tau have same accuracy as Eldar"
I would rather prefer the 2 warpath to bring buffs AND drawbacks and that you can also choose to NOT take a path.


I'm gonna say this one more time because you didn't quite get it the 1st time.

Different races are different. Comparing them is irrelevant within this context.


How is that a valid argument? Its a universal upgrade that provides the same usefulness to all factions. Its not like we are equoting Ork Mekboy upgrade to Eldar holofield in asteroids upgrade.


This game does not have symmetrical balance or design, therefore referencing another race to illustrate a point in most cases isn't logical. A sensor upgrade for, say Tau yields a different outcome than, say a sensor upgrade on Imperials because they have different play styles.

Maybe it's the excess coffee talking here but this is like...game design/balance 101 we're talking about, I mean I've had a bit more exposure with the subject because of my sc2 experience so I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't know about that factor. I guess I didn't either until Blizzard started talking about it themselves.

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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Imperator5 » 13 September 2016, 23:48

Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
Adrmial Seraph wrote:
I'm gonna say this one more time because you didn't quite get it the 1st time.

Different races are different. Comparing them is irrelevant within this context.


How is that a valid argument? Its a universal upgrade that provides the same usefulness to all factions. Its not like we are equoting Ork Mekboy upgrade to Eldar holofield in asteroids upgrade.


This game does not have symmetrical balance or design, therefore referencing another race to illustrate a point in most cases isn't logical. A sensor upgrade for, say Tau yields a different outcome than, say a sensor upgrade on Imperials because they have different play styles.

Maybe it's the excess coffee talking here but this is like...game design/balance 101 we're talking about, I mean I've had a bit more exposure with the subject because of my sc2 experience so I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't know about that factor. I guess I didn't either until Blizzard started talking about it themselves.


Oh you big big sc2 god oh let me fall on my knees!

I explicitly stated that the upgrade in question works the same on all factions and gives them the same advantage that affects them the very same way?
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Adrmial Seraph » 13 September 2016, 23:58

Imperator5 wrote:
Adrmial Seraph wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
How is that a valid argument? Its a universal upgrade that provides the same usefulness to all factions. Its not like we are equoting Ork Mekboy upgrade to Eldar holofield in asteroids upgrade.


This game does not have symmetrical balance or design, therefore referencing another race to illustrate a point in most cases isn't logical. A sensor upgrade for, say Tau yields a different outcome than, say a sensor upgrade on Imperials because they have different play styles.

Maybe it's the excess coffee talking here but this is like...game design/balance 101 we're talking about, I mean I've had a bit more exposure with the subject because of my sc2 experience so I guess it makes sense that you wouldn't know about that factor. I guess I didn't either until Blizzard started talking about it themselves.


Oh you big big sc2 god oh let me fall on my knees!


Way to miss the point...

I explicitly stated that the upgrade in question works the same on all factions and gives them the same advantage that affects them the very same way?


You're not thinking big picture. That's ONE variable. Yes, it's functionally the same but it's interactions with other skills and the ships themselves is not. Why? Because different races are different.

For example, increased detect range is more useful on Eldar than, say, Imperials.

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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby anguloke » 14 September 2016, 01:49

Adrmial Seraph wrote:I'm gonna say this one more time because you didn't quite get it the 1st time.

Different races are different. Comparing them is irrelevant within this context.


It is relevant for over all game balance I think.
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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby anguloke » 14 September 2016, 01:51

Alucius Hephasta wrote:Maybe something like removing the Stealth requirement for the 5% accuracy bonus but to have an additional 5% bonus if the ship is stealth (In order to keep the fluff aspect of the Kauyon "patient Hunter"). It's just an idea and we will take every opinion into consideration before stating of anything.

Thank you for your report.


That is a nice take on a way to match it up more.

Still not sure about Mont'ka "In addition, the chances of destroying a targeted subsystem on an enemy ship are quadrupled instead of doubled. This bonus is also applied to critical damage caused by weaponry."

Specifically the bold. Not sure if I'm interpreting that right in it applies to Railguns and Ion cannons. But it does seem like they get critical damage to subsystems more when in this battle strategy. It would be strong if it was just for assaults and boarding actions alone.

I'd love to take that and move that over the Kauyon, and have that the bonus if the ship is in stealth. While Mont'ka would keep the bonus just for assaults and boarding actions.
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What is Emperor’s Will? That we fight and die.
What is Death? It is our duty.
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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby tazercow » 14 September 2016, 04:01

anguloke wrote:
Still not sure about Mont'ka "In addition, the chances of destroying a targeted subsystem on an enemy ship are quadrupled instead of doubled. This bonus is also applied to critical damage caused by weaponry."


I always interpreted this as after the crit is rolled the chance that the crit targets the selected subsystem is quadrupled instead of doubled, so it doesn't actually affect the chance to crit in the first place. Is this not the case? Maybe a dev can clarify this?

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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Ravensburg » 14 September 2016, 09:26

tazercow wrote:I always interpreted this as after the crit is rolled the chance that the crit targets the selected subsystem is quadrupled instead of doubled, so it doesn't actually affect the chance to crit in the first place.


This is right. You get no bonus on critical hits chances but your critics are more likely to target the selected subsystem.

Ravensburg

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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Bosie » 14 September 2016, 10:45

Ravensburg wrote:
tazercow wrote:I always interpreted this as after the crit is rolled the chance that the crit targets the selected subsystem is quadrupled instead of doubled, so it doesn't actually affect the chance to crit in the first place.


This is right. You get no bonus on critical hits chances but your critics are more likely to target the selected subsystem.

Ravensburg


Thanks for clearing that up, not the OP selection I thought it was.
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Re: Mont'ka vs Kauyon

Postby Ashardalon » 14 September 2016, 11:23

Ravensburg wrote:
tazercow wrote:I always interpreted this as after the crit is rolled the chance that the crit targets the selected subsystem is quadrupled instead of doubled, so it doesn't actually affect the chance to crit in the first place.


This is right. You get no bonus on critical hits chances but your critics are more likely to target the selected subsystem.

Ravensburg

does it influence the likelihood of hitting a system instead of hullbreach or fire? or only influence which system is hit?
and for the imperial assassin, does it become less effective if you target a system?


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