Tau armor and outflanking

General discussion regarding the Tau Empire beta.
Anzor
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Anzor » 03 October 2016, 21:07

I agree, that's why I suggested an accuracy buff at 9k although another one at 12k might also be warranted, but right now they just don't play like they should imo because they aren't really weak against anything at 3k.

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Bosie
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Bosie » 08 October 2016, 16:48

Tau are strong at every range. They can hit at 25k through shields with rail guns. They can hit at any range if they have LOS with homing missiles.

Once you get within 6k they can bring both broadsides to bear and that is a mix of lances and macros.

Once you get within 3k they then hit you with solid AoE DPS from their defense missiles.

All other races' ships tend to have at best 60% of their firepower in any one direction. Tau have can bring 100% of their firepower to bear on a single target, whilst chasing too. All the other races have to get the target to their side for even 60% of their firepower and if chasing another ship very few weapons fire.

Tau also have shields that can stop 75% of all attacks, no one else gets this.

They are a very strong race at the moment. Try kiting them, if they have Earth their rails will kill you. If they are Water you'll be facing an enemy fleet of around 1,500 points before long. Charge into them, good luck as they will out DPS everyone of your ships and out tank it once you get within 6k. Want to pull range, tough they are still hitting you with 100% of their firepower whilst you'll be lucky to even fire a single shot.

The Tau were the easiest race to get to level 8 and when I did get my BB I was sitting on around 16K renown with a fully favored fleet.

During beta it was different as people were still learning the Tau, but now we understand how they work better they are just powerful as fuck. The only race I fear when playing Tau are Ork (due to torp/NC/ramming) and other Tau.

Games against Tau seem to follow the format of park in a gas cloud and wait. It's boring as fuck.

Yeah I sound salty, just played a game with my 5 ships against 27. The Tau had over 1.6k points on the field by the time I closed him down.
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Beernchips
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Beernchips » 08 October 2016, 20:59

They can hit at any range if they have LOS with homing missiles.


IT means you get identified you just have to run silent to not be spammable or you can dodge the seeker missiles with AAF, their turning rate is so trash they ll never reach you again. Also seeker missiles have 30 damages and no armor piercing it is far from game breaking

Once you get within 6k they can bring both broadsides to bear and that is a mix of lances and macros.


The 2 dps lance of Tau ship is far from game breaking andeven with full weaponry they don t have same dps output that IN/Chaos ships have with doublebroadside

Past 9k range, Tau accuracy is pretty crap and can t compete with chaos lance.

I agree that Tau with seeker upgrades have strong CQC power but it costs you 2 upgrades and it brings "only" 4 to 6 DPS mitigated by armor. The 75% armor shield is really strong because flanking Tau is really hard.

The biggest strength of Tau is that its easy to play. Unlike other faction you don t have tocare about broadsides directions, you just put prow on and fire at your target
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Imperator5
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Imperator5 » 09 October 2016, 09:12

You can very seldom bring to bear the two broadsides of non-tau and non-eldar ships to play, unless you spam HET, but even that is limited due to fuel guage.
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Neighbor Kid
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Neighbor Kid » 10 October 2016, 02:22

Bosie wrote:Tau are strong at every range. They can hit at 25k through shields with rail guns. They can hit at any range if they have LOS with homing missiles.

Once you get within 6k they can bring both broadsides to bear and that is a mix of lances and macros.

Once you get within 3k they then hit you with solid AoE DPS from their defense missiles.

All other races' ships tend to have at best 60% of their firepower in any one direction. Tau have can bring 100% of their firepower to bear on a single target, whilst chasing too. All the other races have to get the target to their side for even 60% of their firepower and if chasing another ship very few weapons fire.

Tau also have shields that can stop 75% of all attacks, no one else gets this.

They are a very strong race at the moment. Try kiting them, if they have Earth their rails will kill you. If they are Water you'll be facing an enemy fleet of around 1,500 points before long. Charge into them, good luck as they will out DPS everyone of your ships and out tank it once you get within 6k. Want to pull range, tough they are still hitting you with 100% of their firepower whilst you'll be lucky to even fire a single shot.

The Tau were the easiest race to get to level 8 and when I did get my BB I was sitting on around 16K renown with a fully favored fleet.

During beta it was different as people were still learning the Tau, but now we understand how they work better they are just powerful as fuck. The only race I fear when playing Tau are Ork (due to torp/NC/ramming) and other Tau.

Games against Tau seem to follow the format of park in a gas cloud and wait. It's boring as fuck.

Yeah I sound salty, just played a game with my 5 ships against 27. The Tau had over 1.6k points on the field by the time I closed him down.


I just faced a guy and he pulled the same cheese.. the amount of escorts with 24 damage per is crazy.. by the time i got to the middle of the map he had 18 ships.. i destroyed all but 1 of his cruisers.. but the 9 additional escort ships blew me apart.. wtf is that about.

Orks are BS currently.... and now Tau are BS..

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 11 October 2016, 20:25

Neighbor Kid wrote:Orks are BS currently.... and now Tau are BS..


Pretty much that. I am simply floored by ridiculously slow rate at which Tindalos introduces balance changes to the most broken elements of the game.

They took aeons to remove one-shot-pulsar-threat, ages to nerf zzzaps (and not even as much as they should!) and they still haven't buffed lighter SM ships, Chaos battleships, IN Gothic or fixed Nova C(K)annon random madness.

I was also really disappointed how little they nerfed Tau after beta. They nerfed the most critical elements way too little.

Stealth alloy and escorts still allows for a shitload of cheese, while seeker missiles although weakened, still allow for some stupidly powerful combos. Not to mention ludicrously high turn rate for a faction that's supposed to be weak up close.

It just can not be like this, Tau are on their way to dominate the game much like cancer zzzap orkz did, once more admirals get stacked with lvl 10 ships.
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby MadDemiurg » 12 October 2016, 14:27

Water cast stealth cheese needs a fix.

Please explain how seeker missiles are OP now though...

As for BS Orks, IN/Chaos are way stronger now imo, yet IN players keep complaining as usual. Not sure about Tau, but they're very beatable except for maybe a few extreme cheese tactics like water caste stealth.

I'm more disappointed with Tindalos approach to nerfs, as they overnerf stuff on regular basis. Eldar have been basically turned into carrier faction with extreme pulsar nerfs and not addressing many of the core issues the faction had at the same time. Ork kannon nerfs is another example. I would like to see a more incremental and thoughtful approach to balancing.

So I kinda like they're taking it slowly with Tau (and I don't think Tau are actually OP outside of a few cheese builds). The only extreme nerf was dividing the seeker missile damage by 3 but they deserved it and are more or less in a decent spot now.

Neighbor Kid
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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Neighbor Kid » 12 October 2016, 15:19

MadDemiurg wrote:Water cast stealth cheese needs a fix.

Please explain how seeker missiles are OP now though...

As for BS Orks, IN/Chaos are way stronger now imo, yet IN players keep complaining as usual. Not sure about Tau, but they're very beatable except for maybe a few extreme cheese tactics like water caste stealth.

I'm more disappointed with Tindalos approach to nerfs, as they overnerf stuff on regular basis. Eldar have been basically turned into carrier faction with extreme pulsar nerfs and not addressing many of the core issues the faction had at the same time. Ork kannon nerfs is another example. I would like to see a more incremental and thoughtful approach to balancing.

So I kinda like they're taking it slowly with Tau (and I don't think Tau are actually OP outside of a few cheese builds). The only extreme nerf was dividing the seeker missile damage by 3 but they deserved it and are more or less in a decent spot now.



And you see a ton of players are doing this cheese right? Sit back in the cloud... pop out escort after escort..

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Re: Tau armor and outflanking

Postby Beernchips » 12 October 2016, 15:58

We also see a lot of players cheesing nova Kannon spam.
Even Tzeentch lance stealth is "chesse" for some people.
You can nerf "cheese" builds but people will always find "cheeses" because they don t want to play or have fun, they want to WIN.
And thats not developpers fault if players are like that
BTW can you define what a "cheese" is? because in SC2 all non "meta macro builds" can be considered cheeses
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