The_Phalanx wrote:If you don't understand why I'm comparing it to other battleships, especially a battleship that would have the same point cost as Strongholds, than you don't understand how points work. The whole point of a point cost is that if you bring the same amount of points as I do, then the fight should be an even, balanced fight that would be decided purely by player skill.
This assumes symmetrical design, which isn't the case for 2 reasons.
1) Fleet build (this matters the most in mirror matches where you're correct, bar this factor)
2) Different races are different
However, as I clearly demonstrated, the Stronghold is not equal to the Retribution. Which means if I were to bring a Retribution and you were to bring a Stronghold, you'd lose. If you were to bring a Stronghold and a Messenger for a 300 point game compared to a Retribution and a Widowmaker, you'd still lose.
*facepalm* I don't think you're getting it. You're not considering enough factors. I've gone over them several times but it's just not registering with you for some reason. :/
You keep saying Stronghold - Tau synergy, but you're using it as some sort of blank check "I'm right" button. What synergy are you so afraid? You have failed to actually demonstrate any sort of scenario where the Stronghold syngerizes into some sort of deathball capable of defeating a Retribution.
The problem with naming specific examples in an argument with people who don't consider the variables correctly is they take that as a challenge and bring up counters, not realizing it's one example. I've been down this road before, I know where it leads.
216 -> Retribution/Overlord/Widowmaker vs 2xStronghold/2xMessenger
246 -> Retribution/Overlord/Widowmaker vs 2xStronghold
Why would you bring 2 strongholds? That's about as smart as bringing 2 Warspheres and in a 500 point game, where you don't get as much synergy due to a lack of complete fleet build.
216 -> Retribution/Mars/Dominator vs Stronghold/2xProtector/Messenger
246 -> Retribution/Mars/Dominator vs Stronghold/2xProtector
That's looking better, now lets account for the Water Caste favor. the longer you wait and try to shell, the worse off you are as they'll have the ability to call in multiple Dhows, presumably with seeker+markerlight+extra turrets. Enough of them will utterly decimate a IN fleet. plus there's the shelling from torps.
216 -> Emperor/3xGothic vs 2xStronghold/Protector/Emissary
246 -> Emperor/3xGothic vs 2xStronghold/Protector/Messenger
Again, 2 stronghold. That's a bad decision as you're not investing into the synergy of tau long range, repair drone stacking and other goodies like Dhow spam off of Water Caste or mass experimental railguns off of Earth Caste.
216 -> Emperor/Overlord/Mars/Dominator/Widowmaker vs 2xStronghold/2xProtector/Messenger
246 -> Emperor/Overlord/Mars/Dominator/Widowmaker vs 2xStronghold/Protector/Emissary/Messenger
This doesn't happen, you can't play a 800 point game unless it's 2v2.
So which of these setups somehow has a syngery advantage for Tau that allows them overperform for their point cost? Because all I'm seeing is all of these super long range bombardment from the Imperials that Tau have no real answer for. You will be detected before you guns get into range in all of these setups. Your Protectors and Emissaries will then get melted by concentrated Lance fire or from the Dominator/Mars Nova Cannon barrage. Stronghold ordnance will have to switch to pure Fighter Drone spams because sending out bombers would mean getting fucked by the constant and endless torp barrages from the Imperials. Though it'll be futile, because the Imperials will proceed to maintain 9k engagement distance, at which Stronghold DPS is all but shit, while maintaining the majority of their own DPS and melt your Strongholds. If you try to hide in clouds or asteroid fields, you'll get scouted out by probes as the Imperials will have considerably more skill slots than you do thanks to AM Favor.
This makes a lot of assumptions in a variable salad.
1st off who in their right mind would get their protectors/emissaries into range of that composition? 2nd who in their right mind gets 2 Strongholds? 3rd turrets with markerlight take care of all but the worst and most concentrated torpedo spam. And you yourself as an IN player won't have the ordinance to defend vs mantas and missiles with these unit compositions.
So please, move the goalpost once more.
Perhaps the problem here isn't "goalpost" as much as it's your flawed understanding of how game design and variables work?