How I would do the Tau + Allies

Discuss the Tau fleet. For the Greater Good!
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Kadaeux
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How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Kadaeux » 29 April 2016, 23:47

For the second entry in this series, the title is fairly self-explanatory, based on BFG:A's systems, the below is how I would incorporate the Tau and their allies *The Demiurg and Kroot as they are the poll options* into the game.


1st:
Weapons;
  • Ion Cannons; Behaves as lances in all respects, there is no need for anything fancy here.
  • Railguns; These behave as Macro weapons, however instead of 'volley' fire, they're ripple fired. "Railguns of the size mounted on warships require massive amounts of energy to fire despite Tau superconductors. Because of this, power is routed to a single barrel at a time. The sequence is timed to ensure the first barrel is reloaded before it is charged again. Railguns function as standard weapons batteries"
  • Gravitic Launchers; these are... similar... to torpedoes, however each 'torpedo' is actually 10 drone missiles with pretty good guidance, but smaller range than torpedoes, I would have these weapons slowly track towards the closest enemy target, not enough to be OP, with small individual damage 'per missile' and keeping armour piercing. However, the further the missiles go, the weaker the salvo becomes.
  • Gravitic Hooks; Certain Tau ships come with 'gravitic hooks' that carry a small (and somewhat ♥♥♥♥♥♥) escort into battle. So while the ship itself may be weaker than it's "equals" the escorts make up the difference to a degree.
  • Cutting Beam; Demiurg weapon only, behaves as a Lance.
  • Demiurg Launch Bays; May launch strike craft, OR torpedoes, shared cooldown.
  • Demiurg Torpedo Silos; Only exists on the Stronghold vessel, may fire torpedoes in any direction.


2nd:
Favours;
  • Favour of the Fire Caste;
    Passive: Accuracy improved by 5%
    Activated: +1 to Boarding Actions. Replaces Boarding with "Fire caste Assault"
  • Favour of the Earth Caste;
    Passive: The "Repair" special order has 2x the standard healing rate.
    Activated: Repair Drones, may repair another ship in range for up to 100 HP. *Long cooldown*
  • Favour of the Air Caste;
    Passive: Ship speed improved by 25.
    Activated: May launch a squadron of Barracuda fighters to protect the ship. (Like the Darkstar ability.)
  • Favour of the Ethereal Caste;
    Passive: +20 Troop Value for this ship.
    Activated: Negotiations; Ship cannot be targeted for 10 seconds except by Lightning Strike, but cannot attack in that time, an attack order or using any skill cancels this ability. An enemy Lightning Strike may cancel this as they 'strike for the Ethereal'

3rd: Shields
Tau Shields behave as normal shields. However there is a '2nd' shield.
The Gravitational Deflector gives them a 75 Armour on the front until they take a prow weapons critical, should the ship take a prow weapons critical, the deflector is disabled and the armour is the same as all other facings for that ship class.

4th: "Combustion Gauge"
Behaves identically to Chaos and Imperium combustion gauges.

5th: "Skills"
No real need for any changes here, except for replacing Micro-warp perhaps. Otherwise, identical to Imperial Navy.

6th: "Upgrades"
As above. Identical to Imperial Navy.

7th: "Crew" (Using IoM examples)
Commissar is replaced by - Ethereal
Navigator is left alone.
Tech-Priest is replaced by - Earth Caste Engineer
Master Gunner is replaced by - Fire Caste Gunner
Ratings is replaced by - Fire Warriors
Servitors is replaced by - Earth Caste
Squadron Sergeant is left alone.

8th: Weaknesses
Slow; The Tau are no better than Orks when it comes to speed. And some ships are even slower.
Poor Shielding; Depending on the ship, Tau often have poorer shielding than their class equivalents.
Cannot conduct Lightning Strikes; *Does not apply to Kroot or Demiurg.
Half Boarding Strength; *Does not apply to Kroot or Demiurg.
Does not have Assault Boats

9th: Curiosities.
Messenger Escort; This escort can be taken, and improves the accuracy of Tau ships in range of it's tracking systems by 10% for each range bracket.
Tau Mercenaries; Mercenaries CANNOT be bought and kept, but are similar to the 'freebie' ship you can take if all your ships are off of the board, they are bought specifically on a mission to mission basis *hiring the merc* for that mission only and do not form a permanent part of the fleet so cannot be upgraded, favoured or have skills bought, instead starting with random upgrades and skills appropriate to them. Additionally, if reduced to 200 HP, they will attempt to warp out of the battle.

10th Strike Craft.
Barracudas; Behave as normal fighters.
Mantas; Each squadron is an individual Manta Missile Destroyer, and are also shielded. Lotsa dakka.

THE SHIPS!

  • BATTLESHIP: Explorer, Vash'ya Configuration.
  • BATTLESHIP: Explorer, Bor'kan Configuration.
  • BATTLESHIP: Custodian Class "Or'es El'leath"
  • BATTLESHIP: Demiurg Stronghold Commerce Vessel - MERCENARY.
  • BATTLECRUISER: Kroot Warsphere - MERCENARY
  • BATTLECRUISER: Protector Class, Lar'shi'vre
  • CRUISER: Hero, Lar'shi Vash'ya Configuration.
  • CRUISER: Hero, Lar'shi Tolku Configuration.
  • CRUISER: Demiurg Bastion Commerce Vessel - MERCENARY.
  • LIGHT CRUISER: Merchant, Ke'leshan Configuration
  • LIGHT CRUISER: Merchant, Dal'yth Configuration
  • LIGHT CRUISER: Emissary Class Il'Porrui
  • ESCORT: Defender Class Starship Kir'quath
  • ESCORT: Messenger Class Starship Skether'qan
  • ESCORT: Kass'l "Orca" Gunship - Comes free on ships with Gravitic Hooks. Cannot be taken otherwise. (Except for the Custodian which comes with Warden Carrier Escorts)
  • ESCORT: Castellan Heavy Escort Kir'shasvre
  • ESCORT: Warden Carrier Escort Kir'la

Explorer "Vash'ya" Configuration Battleship
Hull Integrity: 1200
Shields: 100
Speed: 125
Rotation: 5'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 18
Armour: 50/50/25
Prow Railgun *270 degree arc*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 6 (Divided between cannons. So if there are 6 guns on the hull it'd be 1 attack.)
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Launch Bays: Barracudas and Mantas, 4 Squadrons
3 Gravitic Hooks carrying 3 Orca Gunships.


Explorer "Bor'kan" Configuration Battleship
Hull Integrity: 1200
Shields: 100
Speed: 125
Rotation: 5'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 18
Armour: 50/50/25
Prow Railgun *270 degree arc*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 6 (Divided between cannons. So if there are 6 guns on the hull it'd be 1 attack.)
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Gravitic Launcher: Behaves as a Strength 8 Torpedo salvo, modified by the above. Not sure of stats.
Launch Bays: Barracudas and Mantas, 2 Squadrons
3 Gravitic Hooks carrying 3 Orca Gunships.


Custodian "Or'es El'leath" Class Battleship
Hull Integrity: 1000
Shields: 200
Speed: 150
Rotation: 5'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 18
Armour: 50/50/50
Port Railgun *180 degree arc* *Front/Left*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4 (Divided between cannons. So if there are 6 guns on the hull it'd be 1 attack.)
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Starboard Railgun *180 degree arc* *Front/Right*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4 (Divided between cannons. So if there are 6 guns on the hull it'd be 1 attack.)
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Ion Cannon *180 degree arc* *Front/Left*
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6
Starboard Ion Cannon *180 degree arc* *Front/Right*
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6
Prow Gravitic Launcher: Behaves as a Strength 4 Torpedo salvo, modified by the above. Not sure of stats.
Launch Bays: Barracudas and Mantas, 2 Squadrons
3 Ventral Gravitic Hooks carrying 3 Warden Carrier Escorts.


Demiurg Stronghold Commerce Vessel
Hull Integrity: 1000
Shields: 400
Speed: 125
Rotation: 5'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 60
Turrets: 16
Armour: 75/50/50
Port Macro-Battery *As Retribution Battleship Port Batteries* - Range downgraded to 6'000
Starboard Macro-Battery *As Retribution Starboard Batteries* - Range downgraded to 6'000
Port Lance *As Gothic Cruiser Port Lance Batteries - Range upgraded to 12000
Starboard *As Gothic Cruiser Starboard Lances* - Range upgraded to 12000
Prow Macro-Battery *As Retribution Battleship Port Batteries, redirected forwards. Range downgraded to 6'000*
Prow Cutting Beam *As Pulsar Lance*
Dorsal Torpedo Silos *Strength 6 direction-able Torpedo Salvo*
Dorsal Launch Bays *3 Squadrons*


Protector Class Battlecruiser Lar'shi'vre
SPECIAL NOTE: I elected this to be the Battlecruiser instead of the Hero as, while it has a weaker hull, it is a dedicated warship as opposed to a modified merchant vessel like the Hero. (As the Hero was an attempt to match the Lunar Class Cruiser. An attempt that 'failed'.
Hull Integrity: 600
Shields: 200
Speed: 150
Rotation: 10'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 12
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun *Forward Arc*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Railgun 180 Degrees *Forward/Left Arc*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Starboard Railgun 180 Degrees *Forward/Right Arc*
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Ion Cannon Forward Arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6
Dorsal Gravitic Launcher: Behaves as a Strength 6 Torpedo salvo, modified by the above. Not sure of stats.
Launch Bays: Barracudas and Mantas, 1 Squadron


Kroot Warsphere (Battlecruiser)
SPECIAL NOTE: This ship must use 'come to new heading' to change direction. They cannot turn otherwise and will always move slowly.
Hull Integrity: 1000
Shields: 200
Speed: 100
Rotation: 0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 80
Turrets: 12
Armour: 50/50/50
Macrocannons 360 Degree fire.
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 12 (Divided between cannons. So if there are 6 guns on the hull it'd be 2 attacks.)
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4


Hero Class Cruiser Vash'ya
Hull Integrity: 800
Shields: 200
Speed: 150
Rotation: 10'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 12
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Ion Cannon Forward/Left Arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6
Starboard Ion Cannon Forward/Right Arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6
Dorsal Gravitic Launcher: Behaves as a Strength 6 Torpedo salvo, modified by the above. Not sure of stats.
Launch Bays: Barracudas and Mantas, 1 Squadron


Hero Class Cruiser Tolku
Hull Integrity: 800
Shields: 200
Speed: 150
Rotation: 10'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 12
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Railgun Forward/Left 180 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Starboard Railgun Forward/Right 180 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Dorsal Gravitic Launcher: Behaves as a Strength 6 Torpedo salvo, modified by the above. Not sure of stats.
Launch Bays: Barracudas and Mantas, 1 Squadron


Demiurg Bastion Commerce Vessel
Hull Integrity: 800
Shields: 200
Speed: 150
Rotation: 5'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 60
Turrets: 16
Armour: 75/50/50
Port Macro-Battery *As Dauntless Light Cruiser Port Batteries* - Range 6'000
Starboard Macro-Battery *As Dauntless Light Cruiser Port Batteries* - Range 6'000
Port Lance *As Lunar Cruiser Port Lance Batteries - Range upgraded to 12000
Starboard *As Lunar Cruiser Starboard Lances* - Range upgraded to 12000
Prow Macro-Battery *As Dominator Cruiser Port Batteries, redirected forwards. Range 9'000*
Prow Cutting Beam *As Pulsar Lance*
Dorsal Launch Bays *1 Squadron or Strength 4 Torpedo salvo*


Merchant Class Light Cruiser Ke'lshan
Hull Integrity: 600
Shields: 100
Speed: 125
Rotation: 10'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 8
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Railgun Forward/Left 180 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Starboard Railgun Forward/Right 180 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
2 Gravitic Hooks


Merchant Class Light Cruiser Dal'yth
Hull Integrity: 600
Shields: 100
Speed: 125
Rotation: 10'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 8
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Railgun Forward/Left 180 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Starboard Railgun Forward/Right 180 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Ion Cannon Forward/Left Arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6
Starboard Ion Cannon Forward/Right Arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6


Emissary Class Light Cruiser Dal'yth
Hull Integrity: 400
Shields: 100
Speed: 150
Rotation: 10'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 8
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 9000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 4
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Port Railgun Forward/Left 180 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Starboard Railgun Forward/Right 180 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Gravitic Launcher: Str 3 Torpedo salvo.
Launch Bays: 1 Squadron of Barracuda's only.


Defender Class Starship (escort)
Hull Integrity: 200
Shields: 100
Speed: 150
Rotation: 15'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 4
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 3
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Gravitic Launcher: Str 2 Torpedo salvo.


Messenger Class Starship (escort)
Hull Integrity: 100
Shields: 100
Speed: 175
Rotation: 20'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 4
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4


Orca Class Gunship
- Comes 'free' with ships Merchant Class and Explorers with Gravitic Hooks, number = to Grav-Hooks. *Cost included in the parent vessel.*
Hull Integrity: 100
Shields: 100
Speed: 150
Rotation: 20'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 2
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Ion Cannon *Forward Arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6


Castellan Class Heavy Escort
Hull Integrity: 200
Shields: 100
Speed: 150
Rotation: 20'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 4
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 3
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Gravitic Launcher; Strength 2 Torpedo salvo


Warden Carrier Escort
-Comes free with the Castellan Carrier, number = to Grav-Hooks. Cost included with Castellan.
Hull Integrity: 100
Shields: 100
Speed: 150
Rotation: 20'0/s
Detection: 5'000
Troop Value: 40
Turrets: 2
Armour: 50/50/50
Prow Railgun 270 degree arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 12
  • Attacks: 2
  • Rate of Fire: 10
  • Critical Chance: 4
Prow Ion Cannon *Forward Arc
  • Range: 6000
  • Damage: 8
  • Attacks: 1
  • Rate of Fire: 12
  • Critical Chance: 6

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Lorian
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Lorian » 30 April 2016, 10:54

I like your ideas! Thanks for so much effort in typing them down.

Oh would love to get some Kroot in the same fleet as Tau. Hopefully Tindalos will do that! :)

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Mournilg
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Mournilg » 01 May 2016, 10:01

It's a nice long and well structured post you did there. Really good job ^^
However, i do not agree some of it personnaly.

First thing, and the most problematic one, i wonder why people still want to keep the merchant fleet alive... we play Tau! we evolve! We go forward, not backward! ^^

I see 2 reasons :
-I can understand some nostalgia from people that played it on TT, and i know people don't like when old minis can't be used anymore (hello Warhammer fantasy battle/age of Sigmarines)
-I can understand, especially after Eldar implementation, that people fear a lack of ship diversity.

But i don't like the idea of having an old outclassed fleet, even by Tau standards there is no reason to keep unefficient weapons.
I think it's a major visual problem as the 2 fleets are miles away artistically, and i don't want to have a visual mess when i play with or against any race.
And on the gameplay side too with the more frontal arc profiles of the FW fleet, compared to the more long boat profiles of the old one.

I like your idea of hiring mercenaries vessels, i prefere pure Tau fleets, but the idea of paying for special additionnal vessels is smart and exactly what Tau do.

For weaknesses, you said they are slow (even more than orks), i do not agree, i did look in the rulebooks, only the old merchant fleet Kor'Vattra was slow, Tau Forge world fleet Kor'Or'vesh ships are as fast as imperial ships with same turning angle, only the Dauntless is faster with 25 cm instead of 20.
Though i was sure i did read they didn't have HET, but i can't find where i did read it.

As Ravensburg did say in the big announcment post, they will add the Kor'Or'Vesh, so i think we can forget about the old merchant fleet.
"Those with superior reach can dictate the terms of battle and impose their will upon their foe. Remember, the first step on the path to victory is often the most important." Commander Puretide

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Kadaeux
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Kadaeux » 01 May 2016, 10:49

Mournilg wrote:It's a nice long and well structured post you did there. Really good job ^^
However, i do not agree some of it personnaly.


Thanks, and in order.

First thing, and the most problematic one, i wonder why people still want to keep the merchant fleet alive... we play Tau! we evolve! We go forward, not backward! ^^

I see 2 reasons :
-I can understand some nostalgia from people that played it on TT, and i know people don't like when old minis can't be used anymore (hello Warhammer fantasy battle/age of Sigmarines)
-I can understand, especially after Eldar implementation, that people fear a lack of ship diversity.


The most important reason, the second one. Personally, the Merchant fleet was terrible, both in appearance and performance. It took little effort to sent packing. But given the problems evident with the Eldar Implementation, more variety is better than none.


But i don't like the idea of having an old outclassed fleet, even by Tau standards there is no reason to keep unefficient weapons.
I think it's a major visual problem as the 2 fleets are miles away artistically, and i don't want to have a visual mess when i play with or against any race.
And on the gameplay side too with the more frontal arc profiles of the FW fleet, compared to the more long boat profiles of the old one.


If you mean mechanically the Merchant fleet had the same mechanics, but yes the FW fleet was more visually representative of it than the Merchant Fleet.

I like your idea of hiring mercenaries vessels, i prefere pure Tau fleets, but the idea of paying for special additionnal vessels is smart and exactly what Tau do.


I thought it was a natural idea :p

For weaknesses, you said they are slow (even more than orks), i do not agree, i did look in the rulebooks, only the old merchant fleet Kor'Vattra was slow, Tau Forge world fleet Kor'Or'vesh ships are as fast as imperial ships with same turning angle, only the Dauntless is faster with 25 cm instead of 20.
Though i was sure i did read they didn't have HET, but i can't find where i did read it.


I think they did have HET.

As Ravensburg did say in the big announcment post, they will add the Kor'Or'Vesh, so i think we can forget about the old merchant fleet.


Yeah, I asked Velociraptom about the wording, and he said that was all the news to give out at the moment. It's tricky. Because the wording of the Poll implied Merchant+Kro'Or'Vesh+Alien Mercs. (Which is what this was originally written for, I simply reposted an old thread I'd already made now it was more relevant.) But the announcement specified the FW fleet.

Which is bad from a variety perspective.

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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby BrianDavion » 01 May 2016, 11:01

eh even if it's JUST the forge world fleet it's still 1 Battleship 2 cruisers, 3 Light Cruisers and 3 escorts. it's not exactly the Imperial Navy but it's far from the worst in terms of varity.

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ScinFaxi
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby ScinFaxi » 01 May 2016, 18:26

Just forgeworld ships.

Railguns should behave like pulsars and should be skill shot based as they are not "macro" cannons. (Ok I understand they fire a projectile like a macro cannon) but it's at entirely different speeds and type as it's a solid shot over an explosive shell.)

Ion should actually act like macro cannons or star cannons and not lances.

Tau have the best fighters, hands down on the table top and barracudas are just op.
The bombers have their own armor values and are massive. Again they are the best bombers, sucks to be eldar now o.0

Shields, has everyone forgotten that they are pretty much on par but have deflectors? That big ol black hole thing that chuck in front of their ship to move is also a shield/deflector that sucks in fire.

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Kadaeux
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Kadaeux » 01 May 2016, 21:48

ScinFaxi wrote:Railguns should behave like pulsars and should be skill shot based as they are not "macro" cannons. (Ok I understand they fire a projectile like a macro cannon) but it's at entirely different speeds and type as it's a solid shot over an explosive shell.)


I disagree entirely. Macrocannons are not slow chemically propelled projectiles. They're part of weapons batteries that hit "near instantly, even across tens of thousands of kilometres" meaning they're firing relatavistic projectiles. While the Tau do use Railguns, their velocity is not going to be significantly different, and given their coverage they should definitely not be a 'skill-shot' weapon.

Ion should actually act like macro cannons or star cannons and not lances.


Given that the Ion Cannon is a beam comparable to a Lance, I'm not sure why you'd think that.

Tau have the best fighters, hands down on the table top and barracudas are just op.


The Fighters used in space by most factions are more powerful than their TT cousins. The Barracuda has a longbarrel Ion Cannon, 2 Drone Burst cannons, 8 Seeker Missiles and has a max recorded Atmospheric velocity of 2100 kph.

The Fury Interceptor (Calixis Pattern) has Forward Gunner Operated twin-linked long-barreled lascannon turret capable of 270 degrees coverage. 2 Pilot Operated long-barreled Lascannon banks (each is 5 lascannons linked for rapid fire) 12 Co-Pilot operated Void-Capable Missiles and an atmospheric cruising speed of 2500 kph (The Gothic pattern of Fury Interceptor also has shields, per Execution Hour.)

The bombers have their own armor values and are massive. Again they are the best bombers, sucks to be eldar now o.0


Their bombers are also very slow. And they are deployed as individuals, not as squadrons. (So I would see it as one powerful Manta, gets a single relatively powerful attack, but takes a lot to shoot down.) But is quite true.

Shields, has everyone forgotten that they are pretty much on par but have deflectors? That big ol black hole thing that chuck in front of their ship to move is also a shield/deflector that sucks in fire.


It's comparable to an Honorverse "Wedge" but all it does is increase the frontal armour of Tau ships to 6+ while it's active. And a single critical hit of any sort knocks it out. However you will note that I did include it under point 3 (Shields) that it would increase the Tau's frontal armour to 75 until it took a prow critical after which the deflector would be disabled and it'd have its regular 5+ (50) front armour.

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ScinFaxi
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby ScinFaxi » 01 May 2016, 22:26

I'm not sure how you can compare a macro and rail at all. The frequency of the shots would make it perfect for skill shots.
A rail gun is entirely different to a macro cannon.

Sure they are both fast but the railgun is much faster and a different weapon entirely.


Ion cannons fire at a much larger frequency so for the games perspective they should be similar to macro over lance in effect.

Also to note they don't behave like lances physically anyway. IE the fire amounts off the TT??

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Kadaeux
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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Kadaeux » 01 May 2016, 23:19

ScinFaxi wrote:I'm not sure how you can compare a macro and rail at all. The frequency of the shots would make it perfect for skill shots.
A rail gun is entirely different to a macro cannon.


A railgun on the ground is entirely different to a macrocannon. This is not true in space. On a planetary surface, the Railguns advantage is in projectile velocity, in space these projectiles are already being fired at two-thirds the speed of light or greater. They're also no more powerful than Macrocannon batteries, making it's use as a skill-shot silly.

Sure they are both fast but the railgun is much faster and a different weapon entirely.


No, it isn't much faster and no it's not a different weapon entirely. They're basically macrocannon broadsides that fire sequentially instead of as a barrage. Indeed, Imperial Macrocannon for ship to ship ARE railguns.

"Weapons batteries form the main armament for most warships, ensuring that much of their hull is pock-marked by gun ports and weapon housings. Each battery consists of rank upon rank of weapons: Plasma projectors, laser cannons, missile launchers, rail guns, fusion beamers and graviton pulsars." - BFG Main Rulebooks. *Special note: This phrase pre-dated the very existence of the Tau.

Indeed, there is even a variant of Macrobattery that makes a Railgun look childish.

"The strange orbital dance of the three planetoids that make up the Lathe Forgeworlds have given the magos there a unique insight into the ancient art of grav-weaponry, using strange forces to hurl warheads at tremendous speeds. Due to the unique methods of propulsion, variant warheads can also be fired through the grav-culverin, including self-propelled ordinance for greater range."

Though it is hardly that rare, since the Imperial Navy torpedo launchers of the Gothic Sector use gravity to help accelerate their torpedoes too.

"Simultaneous flame bursts erupted from each opening as powerful engines, assisted by the launch tubes’ own gravitic motors, roared into life, firing the hundred metre-long missiles out of their silo tubes and into the vacuum of space. The torpedo missiles sped away at incredible velocity, their fast-burn plasma engines leaving a trail of burning, blinding-white plasma energy in their wake." - Execution Hour.

Ion cannons fire at a much larger frequency so for the games perspective they should be similar to macro over lance in effect.

Also to note they don't behave like lances physically anyway. IE the fire amounts off the TT??


You seem to be mistaking weapons on the ground for weapons in space. Starship weapons are orders of magnitude greater than on the ground. The Tabletop 40k is not even remotely representative of 40k in space.

BFG Armada: Page 98 wrote:Ion Cannons
Ion cannon shots vaporise the object struck magnifying the energy discharge. Armour is of no value against them. They function as lances in all respects.

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Re: How I would do the Tau + Allies

Postby Mournilg » 01 May 2016, 23:45

ScinFaxi wrote:I'm not sure how you can compare a macro and rail at all. The frequency of the shots would make it perfect for skill shots.
A rail gun is entirely different to a macro cannon.

Sure they are both fast but the railgun is much faster and a different weapon entirely.


Macro batteries are different for every races. IN got big canons, Tau got Railguns, in TT rules it is explicitly said that rail guns are macro batteries equivalent, especially rail guns the size that are mounted on warships, they even explain that they require enormous amount of power to fire, routed to a single barrel at a time to ensure they are reloaded in the menatime before powering them again.


ScinFaxi wrote:Ion cannons fire at a much larger frequency so for the games perspective they should be similar to macro over lance in effect.

Also to note they don't behave like lances physically anyway. IE the fire amounts off the TT??


"Ion canon shot vaporize the object struck, magnifying the energy discharge. They function as lances in all respect" directly from TT rules.
"Those with superior reach can dictate the terms of battle and impose their will upon their foe. Remember, the first step on the path to victory is often the most important." Commander Puretide


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