Tau Favours Discussion

Discuss the Tau fleet. For the Greater Good!
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Necroledo
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Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Necroledo » 29 April 2016, 22:30

Hi everyone!

I think it would be comfortable to have a single topic dedicated to the discussion of Tau favours, so we can brainstorm about them without mixing it with other aspects of the Tau fleet.

First thing that comes to mind is: in what aspects of the Tau lore would they be best based on? Two of them have been talked about:
1) Tau Castes
2) Tau Septs (planets)

Of those 2, I believe number 2, the Septs, are the most appropiate for favour design. The reason behind this is that all other factions use "subfactions" as a basis for their favours: Imperial organizations, Chaos gods, Ork Klans, Eldar Craftworlds, and probably Space Marine Chapters. All of them are subfactions in the sense one would paint their TT fleet or ground army under their colors, and be coherent as a force of said faction, coming from said subfactions. The Tau equivalent of this are the Septs, so for me they seem like the most lore-friendly choice by a wide margin (and have defined, stablished color schemes!). In contrast, Tau castes would not be well represented on a Kor'Or'Vesh fleet: all Tau spaceship crew are from the Air Caste -as it is literally their role on the Tau society- as well as Fire Caste, maybe with a single Ethereal on board, some Earth Caste engineers, and depending on the mission, some Water Caste diplomats. There simply are no Tau ships with crews completely composed of members of the same caste. Simply put, Castes are not subfactions. An Space Marine equivalent would be to give them the favours if the Techmarine, the Apothecary, the Chaplain and the Librarian: it would make no sense at all. Same goes for the Tau Castes.

The following is a list of some Sept overviews quoted from Lexicanum (http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Tau_Sept). Following said page, I'm dividing them into Expansion Spheres.

Homeworlds:
- T'au, homeworld of the Tau. Capital and spiritual, political, cultural, and administrative centre of the Tau empire. Its citizens are considered especially learned and wise.
- Pech, homeworld of the Kroot.
- Vespid, homeworld of the Vespid.

First Sphere:
- Tau'n, first offworld colony, Tau from this world are considered to be pioneers.
- D'yanoi, having been isolated for a time from the empire, its inhabitants are considered somewhat rustic and backwards.
- Bork'an, centre of learning and academia.
- Dal'yth, cosmopolitan and trader-friendly.
- Fal'shia, centre of technological development, Tau from here are considered great problem solvers.
- Vior'la, a major military centre of the empire, its Fire warriors are considered especially aggressive and skilled.
- Sa'cea, another military centre, this sept has a very high proportion of very disciplined and honourable Fire Warriors.

Second Sphere:
- Au'taal, a beautiful sept, whose citizens are considered easygoing and often lazy.
- N'dras was abandoned for unclear reasons. Its remaining inhabitants are regarded as unstrustworthy, quick-tempered, and of brooding countance.
- Ke'lshan has suffered several raids by several alien races. Tau from this sept have grown mistrustful, solemn, taciturn, unfriendly and sometimes openly hostile to alien races. Ke'lshan was invaded by Hive Fleet Gorgon and played an essential role in stopping it.
- Elsy'eir is known for its poetry and artwork. Its citizens are considered intellectuals and well-respected for their creativeness.
- Tash'var was raided several times by Orks and pirates. Its people are regarded as tenacious, hardy, practical and courageous.
- Vash'ya seems to be primarly inhabited by members of the Air caste.
- T'olku is known for the skill of its Ethereal diplomats.

Third Sphere:
- Ksi'm'yen's colonists seem to be associated with luck, subtlety and opportunistic subterfuge.
- Fi'rios whose pioneers are recognised for a tenacious refusal to accept defeat, tempered by a stoic acceptance of the price all must pay in the furtherance of the Greater Good.
- Mu'gulath Bay, previously known as the Imperial Hive World of Agrellan. (Destroyed)
- Vas'talos, previously known as the Imperial Fortress World of Prefectia.
- Uan'Voss
- Velk'Han

By clicking on the link posted above the list, you can click on their names and investigate their histories if you want.

The following is just a quick list of possible favours I wrote for the Tau Implementation Thread (viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1564). They're the product of a quick brainstorm, so please feel free to improve them, change them, or ignore them completely. In fact, I'll probably post here later with a different list, once I've familiarized myself enough with the Septs.

Necroledo wrote:- T'au: boosts morale of this ship and nearby ones (reduces chance to Insubordinate).
Ability: boosts the crew value for a short time, representing the Tau showing their best to the proud defense of their homeworld.

- Tau'n: allows to bring a free escort from the military fleet; for example, the Castellan.
Ability: project a big frontal, flat shield that blocks projectiles, ordinance, boarding actions and ships for a short time.

- Dal'yth: allows to bring a free escort from the civilian fleet; for example, the Messenger (because of tracking systems). Ship gains tracking systems itself.

- Bork'an/Fal'shia: increased precision and range for all weapons.
Ability: greatly increases rate of fire and ordinance reload speed for a short duration. Inspired by the Riptide battlesuit.

- Vior'la: increased troop value. Allows the ship to perform Lightning Strikes.
(something needs to be done about Tau and Data Missions...)

- Vash'ya: increased turret numbers. If the ship is not moving, it gains extra shield strength. Inspired by the defense platforms of this planet.

(maybe it would be interesting to have a Farsight Enclaves favour too...)

At least, I hope it serves as inspiration for brainstorming. Now it's your turn!

EDIT: now that I think of it, T'au would probably work much better as the vanilla subfaction (ships without favours). One Sept has to bring the vanilla color scheme :P
Last edited by Necroledo on 30 April 2016, 10:09, edited 3 times in total.

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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Cripple X » 29 April 2016, 23:29

Great ideas. Very Flavorful. I like them and without knowing what the Tau will actually look like, they seem interesting.

With regards to Lightning Strike I'm hoping that Tindalos gives the Tau an ability to cancel warp/nab data, but that doesn't have any of the other effects of Lightning Strike, i.e. assault actions. That seems like it could and should be a faction limitation.
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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Brutoni » 30 April 2016, 08:57

I rekon they will go with 2 of the favours reflectifmg the 2 most used Strategms in the Tau military and represent one being a master with said strategms if they are picked.

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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Beernchips » 30 April 2016, 09:51

Favors will highly depend on if Tau allies (Kroot / Demiurg /Nicassar) are alos in the fleet.
If it is Tau only, I think favors will be casts. If allies have ships, favors need to be also fit with them.
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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Deuzerre » 30 April 2016, 10:07

For the castes, it could still be acceptable, if you go this route:

- Fire caste: This ship is intended for reinforcement or assaults on a planet, and carries regiments/companies of fire warriors
Breachers: +1 to boarding actions, +10 crew
Discipline: No mutinies

- Water caste: This is a diplomatic ship
Diplomacy: Enemy ship is silenced for 30 seconds
Peace talks: (opposite of taunt): Enemy ships within 6K cannot target this ship, but it can't fire either.

- Earth caste: This is a colonial ship
Technicians: boost to repairs speed
Tough colonists: +20 crew

- Air caste: Only containing air caste crew, this ship can pull incredible manouevers
Take the Gs: Temporary +10° turn rate
Disengage: Faster to warp out, but can come back in the deployment zone after a cooldown

But for the Auxiliaries ships... Can't really know.
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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Necroledo » 30 April 2016, 10:17

Brutoni wrote:I rekon they will go with 2 of the favours reflectifmg the 2 most used Strategms in the Tau military and represent one being a master with said strategms if they are picked.

Mont'ka
Kauyon

I considered using them as a basis, but them being only 2, it was not enough. That said, it would be great to somehow represent these strategems via unique abilities or upgrades (they're the equivalent of the Codex Astartes, more or less).

Beernchips wrote:Favors will highly depend on if Tau allies (Kroot / Demiurg /Nicassar) are alos in the fleet.
If it is Tau only, I think favors will be casts. If allies have ships, favors need to be also fit with them.

That is a very important issue. Given the announcement, it would seem only the FW fleet would be on the DLC (thus, only Tau ships), but the poll also included the GW fleet and the auxiliaries... However, I wouldn't be surprised if Games Workshop decided to just retcon their old "GW fleet": they haven't shown up in lore in a long while, and are simply outdated.

About the auxiliaries, I think they could work in the same manner as escorts for other factions. Tau would have a separate "Auxiliaries" tab on their fleet composition, and get to add upgrades to these ships once a certain Admiral level has been reached. On battles, players could add auxiliaries to their fleet, although with a number limit. That escort-like treatment would mean no favours for the auxiliaries, but even that would make sense, as they are not Tau ships nor are divided on subfactions of any kind.

Deuzerre wrote:For the castes, it could still be acceptable, if you go this route:

- Fire caste: This ship is intended for reinforcement or assaults on a planet, and carries regiments/companies of fire warriors
Breachers: +1 to boarding actions, +10 crew
Discipline: No mutinies

- Water caste: This is a diplomatic ship
Diplomacy: Enemy ship is silenced for 30 seconds
Peace talks: (opposite of taunt): Enemy ships within 6K cannot target this ship, but it can't fire either.

- Earth caste: This is a colonial ship
Technicians: boost to repairs speed
Tough colonists: +20 crew

- Air caste: Only containing air caste crew, this ship can pull incredible manouevers
Take the Gs: Temporary +10° turn rate
Disengage: Faster to warp out, but can come back in the deployment zone after a cooldown

But for the Auxiliaries ships... Can't really know.

Your ideas are sound, but the problem is that all other factions use subfactions as favours, taking the distinctive traits of each subfaction to establish the basis for each favour. Imperium organizations, Chaos Gods, Eldar Craftworlds, Ork Klans and probably Space Marine Chapters. And each of these subfactions has its own color scheme, which is the one used on their ground troops. The Tau equivalent for subfactions are the Septs, not the Castes. It would be as if Space Marine favours were Techmarine, Apothecary, Chaplain and Librarian, or if for the Eldar were Striking Scorpion, Warp Spider, Fire Dragon and Howling Banshee. It would make no sense at all: can you picture an Astartes warship entirely run by Apothecaries? Plus, we're talking about warships exclusively for this game (well, and transports).

That is why I believe Septs are a much better choice for favours. But it would be neat (and more fitting) to have some Caste representation through upgrades and abilities.

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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Necroledo » 30 April 2016, 11:39

Ok, I have studied the Septs to try and choose the most important ones, or at least the ones with more fluff we can build on for favours. While doing so, I've seen some of the Septs are distinctive because of a certain Caste being more numerous and/or skilled than in other Septs! That would allow us to use your awesome Caste favour ideas in a more lore-friendly way, by highlighting each Sept's strenghts, while keeping the Septs as basis.

T'au
The Tau homeworld. I would simply have it as the vanilla color scheme for the Tau fleet. In fact, it is exactly the one painted on the Tau ship featured on the Tau annoucement picture: yellow/brown with white markings.

Vior'la
A Fire Caste academy world, and one of the most important Septs. From Lexicanum: "The warriors produced here are particularly aggressive and well-schooled in warfare and often choose Mont'ka strategy. The sept warriors of Vior'la are usually painted with hot colours, like red and orange, and usually have many Fire Warriors and Battlesuits."
- Colors: white+red with red markings. The most recent Tau miniatures are Vior'la.
- Possible favour: having all those Fire Caste would probably make their ships harder to board, and maybe even improve their boarding strenght. Their Mont'ka (Killing Blow) strategy is defined as "It is the art of identifying a target of opportunity and attacking it swiftly with a Hunter Cadre" (Lexicanum): maybe it could come as an active ability that increases damage output for the next fire volley.

Dal'yth
A trade world, with lots of Water Caste. It was targeted by the Imperium on the Damocles Crusade, and is where the Tau won said crusade. It recovered very quickly.
- Colors: green with purple markings.
- Possible favour: Deuzerre's ideas for the Water Caste could be implemented here.

Sa'cea
Another highly militarized Sept, and has one of the most iconic color schemes. Large numbers of Fire Warriors and colony ships.
- Colors: greyish blue with orange markings.
- Possible favour: (ran out of Fire-related ideas :roll: )

Bork'an
Most of the Empire's Earth Caste come from here. Their military equipment is exceptionally fine and advanced.
- Colors: varies a lot depending on the battleground, but the turquoise markings are a constant (in fact the markings are the only true Sept identifiers!). Base colors can be white/grey (tundra), blue/black (urban), green/bone (jungle).
- Possible favour: all those Earth Caste and their superb tech gotta be represented somehow. Maybe with better repair speeds (Deuzerre) and a massive improvement of the Reload! special order (what about an instant reload of all abilities?).

D'yanoi
Was isolated for a long time from the Tau Empire, so its inhabitants are considered backwards and rustic, and have lower tech level. However, they have survived against the Orks for a very long time. The planet is in constant twilight.
- Colors: brown with light blue markings.
- Possible favour: I picture them being good at ambushing, given the twilight they live in, so the Kauyon strategy (Patient Hunter, lure+hunter) could fit them well. They also seem to be good at surviving by themselves. For the first trait, some kind of stealth ability could be neat, and for the second, I can picture them having greatly reduced repair costs, or no costs at all.

Tau'n
The most Air Caste-populated Sept. From Lexicanum: "Tau from this Sept are dedicated spacefarers and scouts who don't lose a chance to explore the near space. It is also said that each caste is represented evenly in Tau'n. Tau'n has a chain of giant orbital docks and controls the largest of the Air Caste space stations. None of the sept can boast ships hosts of the Tau fleet more than Tau'n".
- Colors: white+black, with yellow markings.
- Possible favour: Air Caste favours could fit them well.

N'dras
Veiled in secrecy. Few Tau remain there, and are considered "strange" and "untrustworthy". Covert operations seem to be their speciality.
- Colors: blue camouflage, with black markings.
- Possible favour: stealth-related abilities would probably be the way to go.

Ke'lshan
Has survived many alien invasions, including Hive Fleet Gorgon, the Damocles Crusade, and even The Purge Chaos Space Marines. Because of this, they're the most xenophobic Tau around.
- Colors: dark grey+black, with yellow markings.
- Possible favours: running out of ideas, but they seem to have lots of experience fighting against the various species of the galaxy...

Vash'ya
Another Air Caste world. It is defended by many defense platforms, and produces high-quality pilots and spaceship crews.
- Colors: black, with grey markings.
- Possible favours: something Air Caste-related?

-------------------------------

Choosing only 4 Septs is going to be difficult (and I've got the impression Games Workshop will just take the most important ones). I've tried to choose between the most well-known ones, while having enough characterization and color scheme differences to have variance.
* T'au: for non-alligned ships.
- Vior'la/Sa'cea: for Fire Caste and Mont'ka strategy stuff ---> would probably be Sa'cea, for color scheme differenciation
- Bork'an: for Earth Caste stuff
- D'yanoi/N'dras: for Kauyon strategy stuff ---> would probably be D'yanoi, as it is better known
- Tau'n/Vash'ya: for Air Caste stuff ---> difficult choice: first one is much more known, but has a mostly white color scheme
- Dal'yth: for Water Caste stuff ---> a very important Sept, lore-wise

If I were to choose, my final list would be the following (with the abilities listed above):
* T'au (non-alligned ships)
- Sa'cea (unless Vior'la can have more red than white)
- Bork'an
- D'yanoi
- Dal'yth

Wow, that was a long post :D

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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby MadDemiurg » 30 April 2016, 12:40

Some favour ideas without mapping them to a particular caste or septs (I think castes can work too, representing ship having a bonus granted by specific caste, rather than being owned by the caste, the majority of the crew is still Air caste):

***All numbers subject to balancing and provided just as some basic reference

Mont'ka style:
-Focus fire (active ability): target ship's armour is reduced by 25 and crit rate against it is improved by 100% for 20 sec. 180 sec cd.
-Engine overcharge (passive ability): All ahead full improves speed by 150% instead of 100%

Kayon style:
Extended fuel tanks (passive ability): Ordnance launch range +3k and max range +6k (provided all tau vessels have ordnance, but I think they do)
Ambusher (passive ability): Same as Saim Hann, +50% damage from stealth

Fire caste style:
Fire caste discipline (passive ability): Immune to insubordination
Fire warriors (passive ability): +20 troop value

Air caste style:
Evasive manoeuvres (active ability): +75 speed and +15 turn rate for 20 sec. 120 sec cd.
Elite pilots (passive ability): Ordnance dodge +20% (provided all tau ships have ordnance)

Earth caste style:
Additional repair crews (passive ability): -50% cooldown for emergency repairs
Repair drones (active ability): Heal target ship by 100 and repair 1 random crit, 240 sec cd, starts on cooldown.

Water caste style:
Cease fire (active ability): Ship becomes untargetable for 20 sec but can not attack. 120 sec cd.
Instill doubt (passive ability): Inreases insubordination chances in 7.5k (same as Slaanesh).

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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby Cripple X » 30 April 2016, 13:08

Necroledo wrote:That is a very important issue. Given the announcement, it would seem only the FW fleet would be on the DLC (thus, only Tau ships), but the poll also included the GW fleet and the auxiliaries... However, I wouldn't be surprised if Games Workshop decided to just retcon their old "GW fleet": they haven't shown up in lore in a long while, and are simply outdated.

That's certainly the impression that the game materials give. The Kor'vattra is being replaced by the Kor'Or'Vesh out of necessity. I would expect the older Tau Navy to be retired.

Your ideas are sound, but the problem is that all other factions use subfactions as favours, taking the distinctive traits of each subfaction to establish the basis for each favour. Imperium organizations, Chaos Gods, Eldar Craftworlds, Ork Klans and probably Space Marine Chapters. And each of these subfactions has its own color scheme, which is the one used on their ground troops. The Tau equivalent for subfactions are the Septs, not the Castes.

Agreed. Important Sept worlds should be their favour choices.

Vior'la, Dal'yth, Tau'n, Bor'kan seem like good choices, because they are Septs, but Septs where one Caste represents a large portion of their population/identity.

Rough ideas:

Vior'la would be the "Increase Troop Strength"/ better boarding Favour.

Tau'n could work just like IN's Inquisition favor. Better crews and long range scanning.

Bor'kan maybe increases repair rate. Or maybe like Bad Moons/Mechanicus. Extra skill and upgrade.

Dal'yth maybe a silence like Slaneesh or increase opponents cooldowns with a certain radius.
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Re: Tau Favours Discussion

Postby nesben » 30 April 2016, 13:29

A good idea for the tau'n favour would be to allow ships with this favour to have extra fighters (for example 2 extra fighter squadrons)or if they didnt have fighters just give them the same amount that would be added to the normal ships and\or to give them a boost to the ordnance(i think its called)or a boost to the fighters.


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