Demiurg ships favor removal

Discuss the Tau fleet. For the Greater Good!
Perturabo-Liberal
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Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Perturabo-Liberal » 29 September 2016, 23:00

I honestly don't understand what was the reasoning behind removing the ability to fit the water caste favor. Isn't the fact that demiurg can't upgrade their crew and can't fit any other favors a sufficient disadvantage ? It's not like the damn thing buffs the ship like any other - it just makes it not automatically run away. I'm not even so much against mandatory disengagement at 30% HP, but if the ship insubordinates for any other reason at any point of the battle you can't stop that also! In a game where slaanesh favors are a thing this is ridiculous. You can't predict it and you can't counter it via tactics, upgrades or anything else. The only thing you can potentially do is not loose ships at all and try doing that in a fair game against an experienced opponent. The game basically rolles a die and decides if it's time for you to lose just because and this is not a good mechanic.
Even with such a random faction like orks there are still ways to work your way around bad results like chained squig and belt armor. Sure, they take up upgrade slots, but at least there is and option for you to not get completely screwed by RNG.

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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Wateren » 29 September 2016, 23:54

Completely agree. Even remove the "Summon Nicassar" ability if you want, just let us mitigate the huge disadvantage of having one of our largest ships run away. :(

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Alexi_Menser
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Alexi_Menser » 30 September 2016, 04:35

Perturabo-Liberal wrote:I honestly don't understand what was the reasoning behind removing the ability to fit the water caste favor. Isn't the fact that demiurg can't upgrade their crew and can't fit any other favors a sufficient disadvantage ? It's not like the damn thing buffs the ship like any other - it just makes it not automatically run away. I'm not even so much against mandatory disengagement at 30% HP, but if the ship insubordinates for any other reason at any point of the battle you can't stop that also! In a game where slaanesh favors are a thing this is ridiculous. You can't predict it and you can't counter it via tactics, upgrades or anything else. The only thing you can potentially do is not loose ships at all and try doing that in a fair game against an experienced opponent. The game basically rolles a die and decides if it's time for you to lose just because and this is not a good mechanic.
Even with such a random faction like orks there are still ways to work your way around bad results like chained squig and belt armor. Sure, they take up upgrade slots, but at least there is and option for you to not get completely screwed by RNG.


Point well made Perturabo. I'll see if I can get this point noticed by the developers for consideration.

Ideally, what do you think would be the ideal balance change? And if you have multiple ideas please mention them.
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby MadDemiurg » 30 September 2016, 08:44

Has anyone tested if you can cancel it with Rally?

If yes, this can be a workaround, otherwise I do agree that this is a huge and completely unjustified nerf.

And tbh they were already useless for ranked imo, no way a 1600 mandatory favour + BB level cost upgrades make them worth it. Please drop upgrade costs on Stronghold and Kroot Sphere to BC levels at least while we're at it.

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Sir A Harris
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Sir A Harris » 30 September 2016, 09:06

MadDemiurg wrote:Has anyone tested if you can cancel it with Rally?

If yes, this can be a workaround, otherwise I do agree that this is a huge and completely unjustified nerf.

And tbh they were already useless for ranked imo, no way a 1600 mandatory favour + BB level cost upgrades make them worth it. Please drop upgrade costs on Stronghold and Kroot Sphere to BC levels at least while we're at it.


mate, strong holds have a massive reduction in price as it is (while custodian has had a massive boost to cost due to devs stupidly thinking gravhooks mean mandatory escorts)

Custodians actual price, 330

Strongholds actually cost 350 points, so be happy with their current price.....

Although Tau are completely missing a ship from thier fleet which should be the only ship able to call for nicassar dhows, that is the Nicassar Caravan which has a 360 firing arc with its 10 railgun batterys, it also brings in 4 dhows(OPTIONALLY)
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby MadDemiurg » 30 September 2016, 09:44

Sir A Harris wrote:
MadDemiurg wrote:Has anyone tested if you can cancel it with Rally?

If yes, this can be a workaround, otherwise I do agree that this is a huge and completely unjustified nerf.

And tbh they were already useless for ranked imo, no way a 1600 mandatory favour + BB level cost upgrades make them worth it. Please drop upgrade costs on Stronghold and Kroot Sphere to BC levels at least while we're at it.


mate, strong holds have a massive reduction in price as it is (while custodian has had a massive boost to cost due to devs stupidly thinking gravhooks mean mandatory escorts)

Custodians actual price, 330

Strongholds actually cost 350 points, so be happy with their current price.....

Although Tau are completely missing a ship from thier fleet which should be the only ship able to call for nicassar dhows, that is the Nicassar Caravan which has a 360 firing arc with its 10 railgun batterys, it also brings in 4 dhows(OPTIONALLY)


TBH I don't care how much they costed in TT, TT had different mechanics in many areas, so the comparison is moot. I'm saying from my experience with this game if I were to make a ranked Tau fleet I would never upgrade a stronghold for the current cost, it's not worth it.

For progression it's a bit better but I never felt that Strongholds were OP for the cost and the release change is a huge nerf, even considering 75 prow armour fix.

P.S. Maybe you did not get what I'm saying correctly, I'm not saying that Stronghold point cost is too high, it's not. I'm saying that its upgrade renown cost is too high.

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Imperator5
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Imperator5 » 30 September 2016, 09:48

They need to get this back. Not sure if its a nerf or a bug.

But the Experimental Railgun should just not pierce shields. Its totally Rickdickulous in Assassination.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Sir A Harris
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Sir A Harris » 30 September 2016, 10:00

MadDemiurg wrote:
Sir A Harris wrote:
MadDemiurg wrote:Has anyone tested if you can cancel it with Rally?

If yes, this can be a workaround, otherwise I do agree that this is a huge and completely unjustified nerf.

And tbh they were already useless for ranked imo, no way a 1600 mandatory favour + BB level cost upgrades make them worth it. Please drop upgrade costs on Stronghold and Kroot Sphere to BC levels at least while we're at it.


mate, strong holds have a massive reduction in price as it is (while custodian has had a massive boost to cost due to devs stupidly thinking gravhooks mean mandatory escorts)

Custodians actual price, 330

Strongholds actually cost 350 points, so be happy with their current price.....

Although Tau are completely missing a ship from thier fleet which should be the only ship able to call for nicassar dhows, that is the Nicassar Caravan which has a 360 firing arc with its 10 railgun batterys, it also brings in 4 dhows(OPTIONALLY)


TBH I don't care how much they costed in TT, TT had different mechanics in many areas, so the comparison is moot. I'm saying from my experience with this game if I were to make a ranked Tau fleet I would never upgrade a stronghold for the current cost, it's not worth it.

For progression it's a bit better but I never felt that Strongholds were OP for the cost and the release change is a huge nerf, even considering 75 prow armour fix.

P.S. Maybe you did not get what I'm saying correctly, I'm not saying that Stronghold point cost is too high, it's not. I'm saying that its upgrade renown cost is too high.


its upgrades cost the same as any other battleship, so thats fine as is
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby MadDemiurg » 30 September 2016, 10:04

Sir A Harris wrote:its upgrades cost the same as any other battleship, so thats fine as is


It's not as good as any other battleship though, not even close. Upgrading it for ranked seems like a total waste of renown.
And Kroot warsphere being treated as BB in terms of costs is kinda ridiculous in terms of power level.

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Sir A Harris
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Re: Demiurg ships favor removal

Postby Sir A Harris » 30 September 2016, 10:22

MadDemiurg wrote:
Sir A Harris wrote:its upgrades cost the same as any other battleship, so thats fine as is


It's not as good as any other battleship though, not even close. Upgrading it for ranked seems like a total waste of renown.
And Kroot warsphere being treated as BB in terms of costs is kinda ridiculous in terms of power level.



Stronghold is just as good as any battleship, it has the firepower and health, the kroot is a battleship but seriosuly cheap in terms of points cost, not gonna lie mate, but renown isn't a problem, im sitting with just under 60k in skirmish while I work my way up to 100 in elite mode with tau
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