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Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 13 May 2016, 22:55
by MadDemiurg
Soo.... I was thinking (theoretically) what Spess Mehrenes ships are going to be good for given their stats. Aaaand.... with 75 all around armour and higher than average speed it looks like they are made for ramming. The open question is wheter they are going to have less health for similar ship classes, as their campaign cruiser seems to have 600 hp only (but in reality it can turn out to be an LC even though it says cruiser or health values can be changed on release). If they have less health, that would even things out.

That been said, I don't think ramming suits them lore wise, cause it's a risky kamikaze tactic and SM should value their ships... And I also don't want a faction that is mainly about ramming (it's already pretty effective with the right builds for orks, IN and even chaos sometimes). So I think at least they should not get the IN power ram upgrade....

Thoughts?

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 00:40
by Halstead
MadDemiurg wrote:Soo.... I was thinking (theoretically) what Spess Mehrenes ships are going to be good for given their stats. Aaaand.... with 75 all around armour and higher than average speed it looks like they are made for ramming. The open question is wheter they are going to have less health for similar ship classes, as their campaign cruiser seems to have 600 hp only (but in reality it can turn out to be an LC even though it says cruiser or health values can be changed on release). If they have less health, that would even things out.

That been said, I don't think ramming suits them lore wise, cause it's a risky kamikaze tactic and SM should value their ships... And I also don't want a faction that is mainly about ramming (it's already pretty effective with the right builds for orks, IN and even chaos sometimes). So I think at least they should not get the IN power ram upgrade....

Thoughts?
Necrons rolled out a Planet-sized Death Star...nothing the Imperium was throwing at could get through it....until one chapter rammed it's own flagship, a battle barge, into the void shield and punched through crashing on the surface. The battle barge's entire SM complement managed to take out every essential node that made the station function. Their chapter master reached the main power core and blew it. The void shield went down and the surviving ships of Imperium bombed the hell out of the surface. The battlebarge was retrieved and made into a shrine filled with statues of the brave space marines who gave their lives to cripple the station.

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 01:45
by Kadaeux
MadDemiurg wrote:Soo.... I was thinking (theoretically) what Spess Mehrenes ships are going to be good for given their stats. Aaaand.... with 75 all around armour and higher than average speed it looks like they are made for ramming. The open question is wheter they are going to have less health for similar ship classes, as their campaign cruiser seems to have 600 hp only (but in reality it can turn out to be an LC even though it says cruiser or health values can be changed on release). If they have less health, that would even things out.

That been said, I don't think ramming suits them lore wise, cause it's a risky kamikaze tactic and SM should value their ships... And I also don't want a faction that is mainly about ramming (it's already pretty effective with the right builds for orks, IN and even chaos sometimes). So I think at least they should not get the IN power ram upgrade....

Thoughts?


The Astartes lore-wise show no hesitation towards ramming, the gent above me pointed out how they had to ram the World Engine with a Battlebarge to get people down to the surface. (It's shields were impervious to even exterminatus level firepower, the Battlebarge had a Plot special prow that only it had to make it possible.) Then in the Fall of Orpheus we see the Astartes ramming a Necron Cairn Tombship forcing the super-sized Necron fleet to retreat. (A fleet that had stomped the Imperial Naval fleet that numbered about a hundred and twenty ships like Andre the Giant stomping his way through a ball-pit full of newborn babies)

But no. It won't be about ramming. I'm sure some people will use it that way. But the Astartes fleet is about brutalising firepower, Thunderhawk Gunships loaded with Astartes and teleport assaults. (And sometimes Boarding Torpedoes)

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 09:53
by MadDemiurg
Kadaeux wrote:
MadDemiurg wrote:Soo.... I was thinking (theoretically) what Spess Mehrenes ships are going to be good for given their stats. Aaaand.... with 75 all around armour and higher than average speed it looks like they are made for ramming. The open question is wheter they are going to have less health for similar ship classes, as their campaign cruiser seems to have 600 hp only (but in reality it can turn out to be an LC even though it says cruiser or health values can be changed on release). If they have less health, that would even things out.

That been said, I don't think ramming suits them lore wise, cause it's a risky kamikaze tactic and SM should value their ships... And I also don't want a faction that is mainly about ramming (it's already pretty effective with the right builds for orks, IN and even chaos sometimes). So I think at least they should not get the IN power ram upgrade....

Thoughts?


The Astartes lore-wise show no hesitation towards ramming, the gent above me pointed out how they had to ram the World Engine with a Battlebarge to get people down to the surface. (It's shields were impervious to even exterminatus level firepower, the Battlebarge had a Plot special prow that only it had to make it possible.) Then in the Fall of Orpheus we see the Astartes ramming a Necron Cairn Tombship forcing the super-sized Necron fleet to retreat. (A fleet that had stomped the Imperial Naval fleet that numbered about a hundred and twenty ships like Andre the Giant stomping his way through a ball-pit full of newborn babies)

But no. It won't be about ramming. I'm sure some people will use it that way. But the Astartes fleet is about brutalising firepower, Thunderhawk Gunships loaded with Astartes and teleport assaults. (And sometimes Boarding Torpedoes)


Youre saying how they are SUPPOSED to be according to the lore, I'm speculating on actually efficient strategies based on the stats we've seen so far.

But I got that they are ok with ramming, even though it's weird to me. Then again, they have boarding torpedoes that send some of the only 1000 of the chapter members to drift through space with a questionable chance to land :D.

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 10:34
by Kadaeux
MadDemiurg wrote:Youre saying how they are SUPPOSED to be according to the lore, I'm speculating on actually efficient strategies based on the stats we've seen so far.


No, i'm referring to both. The last part of my post was describing how they behaved on TT.

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 10:51
by MadDemiurg
Kadaeux wrote:
MadDemiurg wrote:Youre saying how they are SUPPOSED to be according to the lore, I'm speculating on actually efficient strategies based on the stats we've seen so far.


No, i'm referring to both. The last part of my post was describing how they behaved on TT.


TT had widely different ramming mechanics and SM armour actually meant a lot vs weapons. The main application for speed + armour here is to ram enemy ships imo.

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 11:16
by Beernchips
SM are close monster and will use every tactic possible to kill fast.
Even if they will field a loat of bays, it is mainly for assault boats. After you cripple enemy engines feel free to ram/bombard/board/laugh/dance around until enemy dies

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 21:41
by Auzor
MadDemiurg wrote:Soo.... I was thinking (theoretically) what Spess Mehrenes ships are going to be good for given their stats. Aaaand.... with 75 all around armour and higher than average speed it looks like they are made for ramming. The open question is wheter they are going to have less health for similar ship classes, as their campaign cruiser seems to have 600 hp only (but in reality it can turn out to be an LC even though it says cruiser or health values can be changed on release). If they have less health, that would even things out.

That been said, I don't think ramming suits them lore wise, cause it's a risky kamikaze tactic and SM should value their ships... And I also don't want a faction that is mainly about ramming (it's already pretty effective with the right builds for orks, IN and even chaos sometimes). So I think at least they should not get the IN power ram upgrade....

Thoughts?


They should get:
good armor, good speed, good firepower.
So their ships become pretty expensive.

Then, a space marine ship is indeed, quite capable at ramming.
But because they would be outnumbered, ramming would not be an obvious choice.

I am strongly against "good armor, but low HP".
Things that ignore armor:
-lightning strikes, boarding actions etc
-Nurgle & Ulthwe AoE
-Torps
-Lances (ok)
-Bombers
-Ap short range macro.
-Plasma bombs
-Nova cannon
-fires, hull breach (weapon crits)
-Soon, very likely: bombardment cannons.

That leaves:
ranged (inaccurate) macro fire, I think asteroid belts and.. ramming.
--> Good armor, low HP = low HP. And lower ramming damage... I'd imagine an armored chunk of metal to deal at least the amount of ramming damage as a chaos cruiser tbh.

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 21:48
by Bludfist
Their is no such thing as "a ram focused faction" ramming is just a tool, another weapon in your arsenal.
I dont remember the exact stats but i know that SM ships had as high hps as IN ships

Re: Will Space Marines be a ramming focused faction?

Posted: 14 May 2016, 22:19
by MadDemiurg
Bludfist wrote:Their is no such thing as "a ram focused faction" ramming is just a tool, another weapon in your arsenal.
I dont remember the exact stats but i know that SM ships had as high hps as IN ships


Well, ramming can deal a lot of damage. It's totally possible to make builds that rely on ramming as their main source of dmg even now (mostly IN as orks are not agile enough to count on it). If SM will be even more capable at it, it can become the standard tactic.