Space marines ships

Discuss the Space Marine fleet. There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
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Mr Morden
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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Mr Morden » 03 May 2016, 16:41

Necro wrote:Good notice Morden !

Interesting is that graphic with Conqueror dont have antyhing in prow resembling lanucher of great spears or antyhing like that ( graphic was creaed well before (it was in collected visions) Conqueror was shooting them - in novel Betrayer)

I alvays disliked female commanders of ships... how many female commanders are in current US navy for example (not menationing medieval / renessance age). Ship is no place for a woman. But i dont want to divulge into this topic :)


Not served myself so can't comment, friends have so will ask them :)

Its something that has happened from time to time in history - going back as far as Artemisia

Yes the one in the second 300 film - no she was nothing like she was depicted - she was very sane, advised against the whole battle, famously admired during the battle by the Persian King of Kings, managed to not only surivive but dispatch one of her rivals ships and came out of it smelling of roses.............married one of his sons

I like "women warriors" - I am a big BattleTech fan for instance - yeah its a fantasy and often not terribly realistic but then so is the whole of 40k :)

I like the very many women in 30 and 40k fiction and feel its a shame they are often ignored on the tabletop - hoping that this is different :)

On the Conqueror - yeah the ship does not have visible launchers but it does fil so well with the World Eater Primarch and how he wants to do battle.............
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

Necro
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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Necro » 03 May 2016, 16:56

movie 300 was a actiom movi so it stopmed history, as a action movie it happen all time. I disliked how persians were portrayed, as some idiots sadista and monsters. Immortals were almost comedian. In reality it was heavy spear-shield infantry division (it counted 10 000 men so its division size)

as for women in any army its simply problematic. women carrly less can lift less etc. not to mention that women demand special privileges, got their red history once in month. i know gender equality and all those stories but in truth woman is simply weaker less capable soldier in general.

As for Conqueror void battle above Nuceria was one of best and well written parts of Horus Heresy series.

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Mr Morden
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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Mr Morden » 03 May 2016, 17:19

Necro wrote:movie 300 was a actiom movi so it stopmed history, as a action movie it happen all time. I disliked how persians were portrayed, as some idiots sadista and monsters. Immortals were almost comedian. In reality it was heavy spear-shield infantry division (it counted 10 000 men so its division size)

as for women in any army its simply problematic. women carrly less can lift less etc. not to mention that women demand special privileges, got their red history once in month. i know gender equality and all those stories but in truth woman is simply weaker less capable soldier in general.

As for Conqueror void battle above Nuceria was one of best and well written parts of Horus Heresy series.


I always saw the first 300 film as "how the spartans would have told it" so yeah loads in inaccuracies.......Although at least they kept the line from History (well sort of): "We shall darken the sky with our arrows - then we shall fight in the shade"

It was a bit too East versus West - especially given large numbers of greeks fought for the Persians and that both sides had lots of slaves.............

I guess there are some weak male soldiers as well? Would it matter so much in a command and control role such as the Captain of a ship?

Sooo back on topic

There are lots and lots of possible Astartes ships - likely more than they will do for the game..............
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Necro » 03 May 2016, 17:39

Persian army relied heavily on archers, often persian arrow barrages were deciding factor in antiquity battles. Generally Perian empire is forgoten in history. We like to see Greece and Rome as center of world, but Peria was far more important in old ages then common history portrays it.

Well somehow woman needs to get info poistion of Ship captain. And it means years of grueling and hard work. I know many guys got a hard-on when seeing women in uniform, but almost all countries in world either prohibit women service in military or narrows it to several non-combat roles. And its done for tons of reasons. Women dont work in coal mines or steel mills near furnance also - for a simple reason its backbreaking work. Of course male can be weak soldier, but weak male soldier will build some musculature in time and becoome moderately strong. Woman got worser muscle density for a first. And woman having 160 cm in height and weighting 50 kg will newer be able to be equal squad member. Would you want to carry ammunition for little squad girl ? Nope i guess you dont :)

In terms of horus heresy era almost all (if not all) ships would be availible to astartes. I dont know about any "Imperial army only" ship (there was no Navy then). Its just chaotic with ship classes known only by name, and some classes are unknown when they started to exist.

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Mr Morden
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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Mr Morden » 03 May 2016, 17:54

Well somehow woman needs to get info poistion of Ship captain


Imperium's Navy in 40k is similar to the 16th- 19th century British military so a combination of connections, title, social class and money will get you in a position of command - keeping it might depend on ability - it might not...........

:)
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Necro » 03 May 2016, 20:12

In 16-19 centrury armies women didnt served in any military of world Morten... but comparision is mostly good. IF you look at novels you see almost all male crew with female captain. Its non-sense technically. But whatever. Getting into place by connections would get you killed as you dont fit into place and make mistakes. And please remember that (its never stated trought) that probably astartes decided who was Ship master... so impossible to pull conections or bribery. It was probably based on merit or heriosm. If ship got almost all male crew and officer cadre (how many leutnants and other officer ranks on ships got female characts... none i remember) you have to pull this female captain from somewhere. I dont see from where. But i will probably hear again im whining. BL just like to make captains female, i dont like it simply.

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Mr Morden
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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Mr Morden » 03 May 2016, 22:38

Necro wrote:In 16-19 centrury armies women didnt served in any military of world Morten... but comparision is mostly good. IF you look at novels you see almost all male crew with female captain. Its non-sense technically. But whatever. Getting into place by connections would get you killed as you dont fit into place and make mistakes. And please remember that (its never stated trought) that probably astartes decided who was Ship master... so impossible to pull conections or bribery. It was probably based on merit or heriosm. If ship got almost all male crew and officer cadre (how many leutnants and other officer ranks on ships got female characts... none i remember) you have to pull this female captain from somewhere. I dont see from where. But i will probably hear again im whining. BL just like to make captains female, i dont like it simply.


Well there a quite few examples of women pretending to be men and serving in various armies, sometimes to be with lovers / husbands in that period of history.

in the 16th - 18th century you could and did have teenage boys as officers - midshipmen were often as young as 12 or event younger - commanding and even leading men into battle - no reason that a woman could not have done the same in the 40k universe -its basically the age of sail in Space!

Even in the more modern period - you get very young Lieutenants going straight into battle........... In all periods ability was not the only thing that kept you in position and there was event the process of keeping promoting you until you were no longer a major issue and on the command staff............Remember in that period - you bought and sold your commission.

I am thinking more of the actual 40k Imperium's navy where its often about great familes and their scions commanding ships and serving as officers, there are a number of female navy officers in BL novels (especially the Cain series - my favs) and FFG. It is afer all a fantasy world and you take or leave what you do or don't like :) Its the only way to deal with 40k

I do like it but I understand you don't :)
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

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Re: Space marines ships

Postby wowu56 » 03 May 2016, 23:04

Ravensburg wrote:
Q#9 - What will the Space marine Fleet be comprised of? In the tabletop it only contains the Battle Barge, Strike Cruiser and a variety of escorts?

I can’t say much about it right now, but you should look up the Vanguard light cruiser. Also, it’s said that the Strike Cruiser has the potential for many different refits ; )


Quote from the general forum, I guess it means that the Space Marine's CL role is going to filled by Vanguard vessels, while Strike Cruiser would be the cruiser (as implied in the campaign) or even Battlecruiser (when 'upgunned') (or maybe by Vanguard Grand Cruiser).

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Re: Space marines ships

Postby illathid » 04 May 2016, 01:03

Mr Morden wrote:
Necro wrote:In 16-19 centrury armies women didnt served in any military of world Morten... but comparision is mostly good. IF you look at novels you see almost all male crew with female captain. Its non-sense technically. But whatever. Getting into place by connections would get you killed as you dont fit into place and make mistakes. And please remember that (its never stated trought) that probably astartes decided who was Ship master... so impossible to pull conections or bribery. It was probably based on merit or heriosm. If ship got almost all male crew and officer cadre (how many leutnants and other officer ranks on ships got female characts... none i remember) you have to pull this female captain from somewhere. I dont see from where. But i will probably hear again im whining. BL just like to make captains female, i dont like it simply.


Well there a quite few examples of women pretending to be men and serving in various armies, sometimes to be with lovers / husbands in that period of history.

in the 16th - 18th century you could and did have teenage boys as officers - midshipmen were often as young as 12 or event younger - commanding and even leading men into battle - no reason that a woman could not have done the same in the 40k universe -its basically the age of sail in Space!

Even in the more modern period - you get very young Lieutenants going straight into battle........... In all periods ability was not the only thing that kept you in position and there was event the process of keeping promoting you until you were no longer a major issue and on the command staff............Remember in that period - you bought and sold your commission.

I am thinking more of the actual 40k Imperium's navy where its often about great familes and their scions commanding ships and serving as officers, there are a number of female navy officers in BL novels (especially the Cain series - my favs) and FFG. It is afer all a fantasy world and you take or leave what you do or don't like :) Its the only way to deal with 40k

I do like it but I understand you don't :)


I would like female captains as well. In most of the lore, the Imperium has been shown to be pretty egalitarian when it comes to gender.

As for the info on the Vanguard CL, that could be interesting. It's supposed to have the same base hull as a strike cruiser but is more outfitted more for void combat. That makes me wonder if vanguards and strikes would both be CLs or not. It would seem weird to me if they were different IMHO.

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Scorch715
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Re: Space marines ships

Postby Scorch715 » 04 May 2016, 09:55

The only information I can find on Vanguard cruisers is from Lexicanum, saying they're just essentially strike cruisers with better engines and turrets but less "offensive weaponry". It doesn't specify what changes to the armament the Vanguard actually has.

How this will translate into BFG:A, I don't know. Seeing as the Marine Fleet isn't exactly expansive, we can guarantee the Vanguard will be there though. My bet is on both the Strike and Vanguard cruisers being CA though.


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