Do space marines suck?

Discuss the Space Marine fleet. There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
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CALiGeR190
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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby CALiGeR190 » 22 June 2016, 15:13

Imperator5 wrote:To quote you in another thread, "Only a fool would not take them." A notion with which I agree, but it does sound compulsory.

By my definition, something compulsory means that the ship is utterly unusable without it.
Closest in game example is the old Ork squig cage upgrade. That's my idea of compulsory.

You still gain so much from these upgrades that I'd highly recommend you take them ASAP, but the ships can perform... decently, without them (although they are harder to play without said upgrades).
Imperator5 wrote:I would like to ask you to consider that these ships have too high skill requirements to be mediocre, and too niche roles too.

Maybe. I'd agree they are niche, but I don't think the skill cap is really any higher than any other faction. I feel its just that its a new faction that people haven't fully gotten to grips with yet, they clicked with me pretty quickly, their play style is somewhere in between the Eldar and Chaos brawler/boarding fleets that I experimented with: lots of fun, but requires lots of risk assessment and timing management.
Imperator5 wrote:Stat wise, the Strike Cruiser is on par with the dauntless. It simply has better boarding and weapons than other light cruisers.

And that's a bad thing? I'd take a CL with bigger guns and better boarding over a true cruiser any day.
I really don't see problems with the Strike Cruisers.
Imperator5 wrote:The Vanguard... I'm not sure what it is, but it has half the health than an ork Basha. It is too easy to counter in early games.

I've been over this many times so I'll just let you read back over my arguments on that one.
The Crux of it: Good boarding, Excellent speed, decent weapons (frontally), carrier capacity and good armour; although weak to AP, poor broadsides and low health. Balanced.
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Imperator5
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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Imperator5 » 22 June 2016, 15:25

I just disagree on that balanced part. I feel like it is too fragile.

I don't really mind that its weapons are weak. I mind that it is fragile and its weapons are weak.

Space marine ships were supposed to have subpar weapons, that's fine. They were also supposed to be durable, something which the Vanguard is just not.

The Strike cruiser at least makes up for its lack of durability with its good boarding and average firepower. The Vanguard has subpar durability and it has subpar firepower, unlike the Strike cruiser.

So I want either its durability or its firepower fixed. I would choose durability to go with the SM theme.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

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Harlequin
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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Harlequin » 22 June 2016, 16:02

I can't say anything at this point.
Since yesterday i had always only 4x astartes in MP, so it ends always in a giant brawl, but it was muchg fun, since nobody knows really what to do. :mrgreen:
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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Avenwing » 22 June 2016, 16:28

My biggest beef is that one crit to the prow and, depending on the ship, I've lost half of my weapons (the vanguard with dual lances loses 3/5 of it's weapons off one crit.) Absolutely fucking ridiculous. The damage states to the prow should work the same way the broadsides do, otherwise one crit can cripple your ship into uselessness.

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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Imperator5 » 22 June 2016, 16:40

Avenwing wrote:My biggest beef is that one crit to the prow and, depending on the ship, I've lost half of my weapons (the vanguard with dual lances loses 3/5 of it's weapons off one crit.) Absolutely fucking ridiculous. The damage states to the prow should work the same way the broadsides do, otherwise one crit can cripple your ship into uselessness.


Orks also suffer from this, but Eldar do not, and both have forward only prow weapons. So it is doable to make them crit individually.

I think that was cut because the prow blows up in animation, not 3 separate animations they would have to make.

Still it is a huge issue for both supposedly brawly factions.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Avenwing » 22 June 2016, 16:42

Imperator5 wrote:
Avenwing wrote:My biggest beef is that one crit to the prow and, depending on the ship, I've lost half of my weapons (the vanguard with dual lances loses 3/5 of it's weapons off one crit.) Absolutely fucking ridiculous. The damage states to the prow should work the same way the broadsides do, otherwise one crit can cripple your ship into uselessness.


Orks also suffer from this, but Eldar do not, and both have forward only prow weapons. So it is doable to make them crit individually.

I think that was cut because the prow blows up in animation, not 3 separate animations they would have to make.

Still it is a huge issue for both supposedly brawly factions.

If the Orks have the same problem and it hasn't been changed I doubt they'll change it for SM either. Guess I'll stop playing again because losing half of my potential dps from one crit isn't fun at all. I had high hopes for this update too.

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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Imperator5 » 22 June 2016, 17:21

Avenwing wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
Avenwing wrote:My biggest beef is that one crit to the prow and, depending on the ship, I've lost half of my weapons (the vanguard with dual lances loses 3/5 of it's weapons off one crit.) Absolutely fucking ridiculous. The damage states to the prow should work the same way the broadsides do, otherwise one crit can cripple your ship into uselessness.


Orks also suffer from this, but Eldar do not, and both have forward only prow weapons. So it is doable to make them crit individually.

I think that was cut because the prow blows up in animation, not 3 separate animations they would have to make.

Still it is a huge issue for both supposedly brawly factions.

If the Orks have the same problem and it hasn't been changed I doubt they'll change it for SM either. Guess I'll stop playing again because losing half of my potential dps from one crit isn't fun at all. I had high hopes for this update too.


PistonMiner and I are trying to work on modding the game. If it can be done, we plan to solve this ork and sm issue. It may glitch the prow damage animation to only blow up when one weapon does, but that's better than orks and marines getting crippled in one hit.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Cryhavok » 22 June 2016, 17:33

Imperator5 wrote:
Avenwing wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
Orks also suffer from this, but Eldar do not, and both have forward only prow weapons. So it is doable to make them crit individually.

I think that was cut because the prow blows up in animation, not 3 separate animations they would have to make.

Still it is a huge issue for both supposedly brawly factions.

If the Orks have the same problem and it hasn't been changed I doubt they'll change it for SM either. Guess I'll stop playing again because losing half of my potential dps from one crit isn't fun at all. I had high hopes for this update too.


PistonMiner and I are trying to work on modding the game. If it can be done, we plan to solve this ork and sm issue. It may glitch the prow damage animation to only blow up when one weapon does, but that's better than orks and marines getting crippled in one hit.

If you end up being unable to fix it, can you at least inflict the same penalty on the eldar? The strongest attack fleet shouldn't get extra special treatment in avoiding damage.
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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby Imperator5 » 22 June 2016, 17:35

Cryhavok wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
Avenwing wrote:If the Orks have the same problem and it hasn't been changed I doubt they'll change it for SM either. Guess I'll stop playing again because losing half of my potential dps from one crit isn't fun at all. I had high hopes for this update too.


PistonMiner and I are trying to work on modding the game. If it can be done, we plan to solve this ork and sm issue. It may glitch the prow damage animation to only blow up when one weapon does, but that's better than orks and marines getting crippled in one hit.

If you end up being unable to fix it, can you at least inflict the same penalty on the eldar? The strongest attack fleet shouldn't get extra special treatment in avoiding damage.


We'll try to make Pulsars into normal lances first. I feel that will solve the huge eldar issue to begin with. I do not want to commit to anything else, PistonMiner wants the mod to be very balanced.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: Do space marines suck?

Postby FieserMoep » 23 June 2016, 02:01

I had my nightmare match versus 2 lvl 10 voidstalkers today.
It is not pretty. Those glorified escorts they call cruisers were molten apart.


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