My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Discuss the Space Marine fleet. There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
User avatar
Cryhavok
Posts: 292
Joined: 03 June 2016, 16:02
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Cryhavok » 21 June 2016, 21:28

Imperator5 wrote:
CALiGeR190 wrote:Yeah, in my experience their boarding potential, carrier capacity and weapon damage combined with the insanely high armour has been more than enough balanced the low health. People will realise in time the power of the Vanguard.


Weapon damage? You mean 2, a big TWO, dps? I think currently they have the lowest damage output of all the ships in game.

Their boarding and carrierness can be countered by putting enemy Lcs together, or having a carrier. Plus criticals are not always permanent. By the time the SM got the chance to board again, they'll be dead if the enemy has other weapons than lotsa gunz.

Sorry to break the news, but 80% of the weapons in game shit over armour value.

Homing torpedoes take an upgrade slot to use, and they can still be shot down/intercepted fairly easily.

Maybe it is to make up for the dual battleships they eventually get?
Do you hear the voices too?!?

warsinger2
Posts: 45
Joined: 26 March 2016, 21:20
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby warsinger2 » 21 June 2016, 21:28

Ugh fights vs Orks 250,300 points with vanguards and escorts are ugly, I am getting my ass whooped pretty hard and damn I do get a lot of Ork fights.....

Halstead
Posts: 212
Joined: 23 April 2016, 22:20
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Halstead » 21 June 2016, 21:50

warsinger2 wrote:Ugh fights vs Orks 250,300 points with vanguards and escorts are ugly, I am getting my ass whooped pretty hard and damn I do get a lot of Ork fights.....
I notice that vanguards struggles against escorts. Homing Boarding Torpedoes are rather nice and balanced by the fact that they have sluggish manueverability.

One must remember that Defensive Fire test can be only performed once for each turret or such a ship has. So against a lone target that already have used Defensive Fire, the remaining torpedoes wont be shot down anymore by that target. That is to say....you do have to worry if any homing torpedo are still up after a few seconds while in the vicinity of your ship.

User avatar
Imperator5
(Former) Technical Tester
Posts: 3063
Joined: 22 December 2015, 07:46
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Imperator5 » 21 June 2016, 21:51

Cryhavok wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
CALiGeR190 wrote:Yeah, in my experience their boarding potential, carrier capacity and weapon damage combined with the insanely high armour has been more than enough balanced the low health. People will realise in time the power of the Vanguard.


Weapon damage? You mean 2, a big TWO, dps? I think currently they have the lowest damage output of all the ships in game.

Their boarding and carrierness can be countered by putting enemy Lcs together, or having a carrier. Plus criticals are not always permanent. By the time the SM got the chance to board again, they'll be dead if the enemy has other weapons than lotsa gunz.

Sorry to break the news, but 80% of the weapons in game shit over armour value.

Homing torpedoes take an upgrade slot to use, and they can still be shot down/intercepted fairly easily.

Maybe it is to make up for the dual battleships they eventually get?


I feel like dual battlebarges are their own tax. They both are more than 300 points.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

User avatar
CALiGeR190
Community Moderator
Posts: 1202
Joined: 27 October 2015, 19:03
Location: Manchester, England
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby CALiGeR190 » 21 June 2016, 21:53

Imperator5 wrote:Weapon damage? You mean 2, a big TWO, dps? I think currently they have the lowest damage output of all the ships in game.

Their boarding and carrierness can be countered by putting enemy Lcs together, or having a carrier. Plus criticals are not always permanent. By the time the SM got the chance to board again, they'll be dead if the enemy has other weapons than lotsa gunz.

Sorry to break the news, but 80% of the weapons in game shit over armour value.

Homing torpedoes take an upgrade slot to use, and they can still be shot down/intercepted fairly easily.

2 DPS? What weapon are you speaking about?
The broadsides are about half of your Dauntless broadside, which is fine since it's balanced to give them something of worth; but you also get some awesome strike craft, good boarding potential and excellent prow weapons (in one case its excellent anyway, and the upgraded torps are also really good, the lances are... ok, but unremarkable).

Its very difficult to survive being constantly on fire and bombarded with torps, lances or Bombardment shells along with Strike Craft assaults. The fire damage is what makes it work for me, every ship I've fought has had at least one fire on board; and more often several at a time. The frequent crits are also a blessing, but they aren't the main attraction. They set fires way more reliably than anything I've used previously.
No surprise keeping ships together counters it, its how you counter almost everything in this game, my tactics are built entirely around ramming and harassing individual ships out of position and destroying them individually. I have yet to come across anyone that's dealt with the hyper aggression effectively in a way I couldn't adapt to, and the low health of the SM ships hasn't hindered me thanks to the armour.

Speaking of armour, vast majority of the games its rendered useless, that's true: but then why not just focus on tank upgrades like everyone else? The only weapon that really ruins my day are torps, and they can be dodged pretty easily, everything else can normally just be soaked up while I chain-crit-burn my way through all their system and grind them to death. Also get the odd game (which happened more often than I expected) where the armour renders you practically invincible, mostly mirror and IN match ups.

Homing torps take a slot and can be shot down. Your point? it would be overpowered if it was an innate weapon that couldn't be shot down, it's a balanced yet powerful weapon system as it stands that requires carrier capacity to counter when massed (which is how torps should always be used, with any faction). Marginally more powerful that your average torps.

Also didn't the Orks lose AP ammo? I have noticed they have trouble killing me with my SM fleet (although that could also be to do with their speed, which is also an awesome feature of the Vanguards).
Where's your Federation now?
-Imperial Navy

Alpha Tester - Getting the game on its feet
Technical Tester - We had to get the balance right somehow
Community Moderator - Purging spammers and maintaining the realm
BFG Wiki Founding Member

User avatar
Imperator5
(Former) Technical Tester
Posts: 3063
Joined: 22 December 2015, 07:46
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Imperator5 » 21 June 2016, 22:09

You most likely never met anybody with a lance ship than and got lucky with RNG. Doesn't matter.

Vanguard macro broadsides got the following stats:

6 damage per shot. 9 second reload. 3 shots.

This means 6x3=18 shots every 9 seconds. 18/9= 2. 2dps. You seem to have problems calculating dps.

Prow light bombardment cannon: 30 damage per 15 seconds, 1 shot. 2 dps.

All around 2 dps.

Lets check the Dauntless.

6 damage, 9 second reload, 6 shots. 4 dps.
3 damage, 3second reload, 2 shots : 2 dps. Has two of these turrets for 4 dps.

Broadside 8 dps and 50% better health.

Hellbringer:

2 macrocannon turrets with 9 damage, 9 second reload, 3 shots. Double the range too. 3 dps. It has 2 for 6 dps. And it has 2 hangars!

Or it has a lance battery for 4 damage, 8 sec reload, 4 attacks. 2dps that poops on your 75 armour plus 6 dps macros for 8 dps.

So just how much does the Vanguard suck? it deals 25% the damage of the Dauntless or the Lance Hellbringer. It deals 33% the damage of a Hangar Hellbringer.

It is the worst light cruiser ever.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

User avatar
CALiGeR190
Community Moderator
Posts: 1202
Joined: 27 October 2015, 19:03
Location: Manchester, England
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby CALiGeR190 » 21 June 2016, 22:28

Imperator5 wrote:Vanguard macro broadsides got the following stats:

6 damage per shot. 9 second reload. 3 shots.

This means 6x3=18 shots every 9 seconds. 18/9= 2. 2dps. You seem to have problems calculating dps.

Prow light bombardment cannon: 30 damage per 15 seconds, 1 shot. 2 dps.

All around 2 dps.

Lets check the Dauntless.

6 damage, 9 second reload, 6 shots. 4 dps.
3 damage, 3second reload, 2 shots : 2 dps. Has two of these turrets for 4 dps.

Broadside 8 dps and 50% better health.

Hellbringer:

2 macrocannon turrets with 9 damage, 9 second reload, 3 shots. Double the range too. 3 dps. It has 2 for 6 dps. And it has 2 hangars!

Or it has a lance battery for 4 damage, 8 sec reload, 4 attacks. 2dps that poops on your 75 armour plus 6 dps macros for 8 dps.

So just how much does the Vanguard suck? it deals 25% the damage of the Dauntless or the Lance Hellbringer. It deals 33% the damage of a Hangar Hellbringer.

It is the worst light cruiser ever.

This is how I see it.
Vs Hell-bringer: same speed, much superior armour, superior weapon systems (with the upgraded torps, lances or bombardment cannon; ignore the broudsides they're useless, they arnt there as far as I'm concerned) and very good bourding and strike craft. Run them down (which isn't hard) and there is very little either varrient can do to stop you from repeatedly Criting and burning them while you pumble them to death with the prow weapons.

Vs Dauntless: superior speed, superior armour (mostly), much better bourding, carrier capacity and equal or better prow weapons. Two ways of dealing with them: hit and run or kite, both equally as effective.

Vs Basha: Superior speed, better range, better accuracy, carrier capacity. Just kite them and watch them burn to death.

Vs Eldar is really the only one that's iffy.
The only time I've actually lost Vanguards in combat was vs the Eldar, but generally if you stay tight and target thier weapons, you pretty much take the sting out of the tail.
Difficult, and pretty RNG dependant, but I still have yet to lose any encounters with the Eldar. Or any Faction for that matter.

You can't do any of that in a bad ship.
Where's your Federation now?
-Imperial Navy

Alpha Tester - Getting the game on its feet
Technical Tester - We had to get the balance right somehow
Community Moderator - Purging spammers and maintaining the realm
BFG Wiki Founding Member

User avatar
Imperator5
(Former) Technical Tester
Posts: 3063
Joined: 22 December 2015, 07:46
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Imperator5 » 21 June 2016, 22:40

Dauntless have better prow weapons by far. It got a 3dps lance or faster torpedoes.
The lance on the Vanguard is 1 dps x 2 for 2 dps. The bombardment is 2 dps.
How are they better exactly? Nope, they are not.

Lance Harbringers will kill you to death easily. Especially if they got a probe. Superior weapons.. can you count? I did the math. You ignore the math.

Yeah you can kite bashas if they got no tractor and zapp upgrade. But if they catch you, you dead.

Eldar need to take Darkstar fighters skill to counter Sm, but if they do, they can outran you and your armour means nothing.

You must have came up against players who are WORSE than easy ai. You also ignored the math I did that proven for a fact that Sm Vanguard weapons are extremely weak. Never ignore math.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

Dulio12385
Posts: 10
Joined: 27 May 2016, 03:26
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Dulio12385 » 21 June 2016, 23:03

Considering that chapter choice is mostly cosmetic and this is a naval game I wished they put in some of the more notable spacefaring chapters like the Carcharadons (aka the Space Sharks), the Black Templars and the Mantis Warriors. Oh wells guess we have to wait for the ship painter and hope they put in a way to add chapter insignias.

User avatar
Cryhavok
Posts: 292
Joined: 03 June 2016, 16:02
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Cryhavok » 22 June 2016, 03:43

Imperator5 wrote:Dauntless have better prow weapons by far. It got a 3dps lance or faster torpedoes.
The lance on the Vanguard is 1 dps x 2 for 2 dps. The bombardment is 2 dps.
How are they better exactly? Nope, they are not.

Lance Harbringers will kill you to death easily. Especially if they got a probe. Superior weapons.. can you count? I did the math. You ignore the math.

Yeah you can kite bashas if they got no tractor and zapp upgrade. But if they catch you, you dead.

Eldar need to take Darkstar fighters skill to counter Sm, but if they do, they can outran you and your armour means nothing.

You must have came up against players who are WORSE than easy ai. You also ignored the math I did that proven for a fact that Sm Vanguard weapons are extremely weak. Never ignore math.


I actually have been having more success with the light cruisers than their cruisers. I'm using the homing torpedo+assault boats version and just running away as fast as I can. The only real trouble I have had was eldar (can't run away) and that came down to the last few points of HP on our last ships. Someday I will get to the battle barges and see how well they work out, but that won't be tonight.

There are a few combinations I want to see in 2vAI and/or 2v2, like homing torpedoes and inquisitorial IN ships, or SM Librarian with slaaneshi ships messing up their morale, and a few others.

The space marine lances and macros though, those are freaking worthless. I would be more effective if I told my crew to use spitwads.

For those that are Ram happy though, wait for them to activate an order, then hit brace for impact and smash into them. You'll basically take no damage from it. Do the same if you are gonna get rammed. it's all around 95 armor... higher with the right favor. You may not hit as hard due to lower health, but it'll hurt them all the same.
Do you hear the voices too?!?


Return to “Adeptus Astartes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest