My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Discuss the Space Marine fleet. There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
User avatar
Imperator5
(Former) Technical Tester
Posts: 3063
Joined: 22 December 2015, 07:46
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Imperator5 » 22 June 2016, 15:18

CALiGeR190 wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:I just put no value on your opinion at all and just ignore it. The RNG is just too random for any meaningful analysis in my experience.

Ok there are two big no-nos there.
1: that statement completely destroys your previous statements and frankly makes you look like an aragoant, hypocritical, bigot.

2: That was a valid argument being presented.
Just because your subjective opinion doesn't place value on it doesn't change its true validity.
If you're just going to ignore a solid argument then the ship will always look bad to you.

It's abundantly clear to me now that you simply don't like the ship, and are trying to sell the idea that it's a bad ship. The ship is not bad, it is balanced, and the fact that you personally dislike it does not change that.


Well that was supposed to go to the derailing idiot, not you. He made no solid arguments. In fact he made no arguments at all, just repeated "he is right you are wrong and your arguments are not valid" which contributed nothing that we already did not say, especially because he made no arguments himself, just called mine to question without any proof or counter argument.

You are just saying your opinion is better and I should believe you why? I do not think your argument is solid because I think you overestimate the Vanguard's boarding ability. The disagreement here is the value of pros vs cons.

Basically, the ship has good speed, good armour, good boarding. It has bad price, bad health, bad firepower.

My problem with it is that it simply has two big flaws.

First, it can't decide if it wants to be a brawler-boarder or a long range carrier harrasser with boarding torpedoes and assault boats...erm Thunderhawks with Marines in them. The fact that these torpedoes take up a valuable upgrade slot is another con.
Secondly, the game has too many armour piercing for it to be this frail. If lances and bombers reduced armour by 25, not to 25, than I would have no such problem.
Another problem is that these ships all feel like support carrier ships. I feel like they could use more difference. There could be a carrier variant, a chaser variant and a broadsider variant. Strike cruisers at least do better and got a carrier and a chaser.
Mind, this is something I have been saying for months. Also, I'm not the only one saying it.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

Corswain
Posts: 5
Joined: 22 June 2016, 15:52
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Corswain » 22 June 2016, 16:32

Heya, I'd like to add my opinion to the discussion but first I'd like to thank all the testers for the terrific work they did and especially Caliger ( go update the wiki dude :P ).
I'd like to observe that, before going into detail and discussing the Vanguard or the SC, if you take a step back and consider that a faction that is known for being resilient on the TT ends up being frail, there is an issue.
Under the BB the idea was always to get near fast, weather the incoming fure and let the boarders fo their job, marines ship are practically built to be robust, given their content.
While some players may feel at home with the "eldarish/chaos" feeling they get, the faction should try to stick a bit more to the TT flavour imho.
Right now the armor advantage us self defeating since on one hand is compensated by the HP loss, otoh is mechanically neutered by the Ap upgrades abundance.
So, to solve this either you go forward with a HP increase as proposed or you touch the AP subject.
Now, after thinking about it for a while, in order to avoid reworking the AP mechanic ( which would be messy tbh), why not giving the faction a trait that ignores AP upgrades? That way natively Ap weapons still work but the faction gets a durability buff overall.

Edit: dammit posting from the phone is a mess :o
Last edited by Corswain on 22 June 2016, 18:27, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
Imperator5
(Former) Technical Tester
Posts: 3063
Joined: 22 December 2015, 07:46
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Imperator5 » 22 June 2016, 16:38

Corswain wrote:Heya, I'd like to add my opinion to the discussion but first I'd like to thank all the testers for the terrific work they did and especially Caliger ( go update the wiki dude :P ).
I'd like to observe that, before going into detail and discussing the Vanguard or the SC, if you take a step back and consider that a faction that is known for being resilient on the TT ends up being frail, there is an issue.
Under the BB the idea was always to get near fast, weather the incoming fure and let the boarders fo their job, marines ship are practically built to be robust, given their content.
While some players may feel at home with the "eldarish/chaos" feeling they get, the faction should try to stick a bit more to the TT flavour imho.
Right now the armor advantage us self defeating since on one hand is compensated by the HP loss, otoh is mechanically neutered by the Ap upgrades abundance.
So, to solve this either you go forward with a HP increase as proposed or you touch the AP subject.
Now, after thinking about it for a while, in order to avoid reworking the AP mechanic ( which would be messy tbh), why not giving the faction a trait that ignores AP upgrades? That way natively Ap weapons still work but the faction gets a durability buff overall.


Agreed. I woudl like to add that as you said, the space marines feel how I think Eldar should play.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

User avatar
Cryhavok
Posts: 292
Joined: 03 June 2016, 16:02
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Cryhavok » 22 June 2016, 16:41

Corswain wrote:Heya, I'd like to add my opinion to the discussion but first I'd like to thank all the testers for the terrific work they did and especially Caliger ( go update the wiki dude :P ).
I'd like to observe that, before going into detail and discussing the Vanguard or the SC, if you take a step back and consider that a faction that is known for being resilient on the TT ends up being frail, there is an issue.
Under the BB the idea was always to get near fast, weather the incoming fure and let the boarders fo their job, marines ship are practically built to be robust, given their content.
While some players may feel at home with the "eldarish/chaos" feeling they get, the faction should try to stick a bit more to the TT flavour imho.
Right now the armor advantage us self defeating since on one hand is compensated by the HP loss, otoh is mechanically neutered by the Ap upgrades abundance.
So, to solve this either you go forward with a HP increase as proposed or you touch the AP subject.
Now, after thinking about it for a while, in order to avoid reworking the AP mechanic ( which would be messy tbh), why not giving the faction a trait that ignores AP upgrades? That way natively Ap weapons still work but the faction gets a durability buff overall.


Nothing will ever be able to feel resilient the way it did on the table top as long as AP ammo works the way it does right now.

That being said, if you keep outside of 3k range, then macro AP weapons do nothing. So get Accuracy and Range boosts for your Macros and bombard cannons and use your relatively fast ships to keep the other guys at arms length. Then Supplement that with Voss Pattern Shields. (if you want to try to trade blows using the spitwad launchers the devs gave the SM as macro weapons)
Do you hear the voices too?!?

Corswain
Posts: 5
Joined: 22 June 2016, 15:52
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Corswain » 22 June 2016, 18:28

Yeah as I said the idea was to get around the AP issue without having to overhaul everything like it happened with the speed upgrades a while back.

User avatar
Solitaire_7
Posts: 46
Joined: 04 May 2016, 07:51
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Solitaire_7 » 22 June 2016, 18:55

Corswain wrote:Heya, I'd like to add my opinion to the discussion but first I'd like to thank all the testers for the terrific work they did and especially Caliger ( go update the wiki dude :P ).
I'd like to observe that, before going into detail and discussing the Vanguard or the SC, if you take a step back and consider that a faction that is known for being resilient on the TT ends up being frail, there is an issue.
Under the BB the idea was always to get near fast, weather the incoming fure and let the boarders fo their job, marines ship are practically built to be robust, given their content.
While some players may feel at home with the "eldarish/chaos" feeling they get, the faction should try to stick a bit more to the TT flavour imho.
Right now the armor advantage us self defeating since on one hand is compensated by the HP loss, otoh is mechanically neutered by the Ap upgrades abundance.
So, to solve this either you go forward with a HP increase as proposed or you touch the AP subject.
Now, after thinking about it for a while, in order to avoid reworking the AP mechanic ( which would be messy tbh), why not giving the faction a trait that ignores AP upgrades? That way natively Ap weapons still work but the faction gets a durability buff overall.

Edit: dammit posting from the phone is a mess :o


I totally agree. In the TT SM always struggled against massed lances. If the chaos player chose certain ships it made life trikey however they were robust enough to hopefully weather the lance storm and close. In this game they have less hit points and so suffer fragility against lance, pulsar and AP macro. Yes they should nerf or remove the AP upgrade and/or consider buffing the hit points of the vanguards and strike cruiser to give them a chance against fleets with long range lances and pulsars. +1 !
"Let your enemies fear, for a Harlequin of the Laughing God dances at your side."

Black Library Approved : viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Crown Prince Solitaire
Beta tester crash dummy

User avatar
BrianDavion
Posts: 1017
Joined: 12 March 2016, 02:32
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby BrianDavion » 22 June 2016, 20:30

I'm going to point out strike cruisers have no less health then they did in table top.

Corswain
Posts: 5
Joined: 22 June 2016, 15:52
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Corswain » 22 June 2016, 20:41

BrianDavion wrote:I'm going to point out strike cruisers have no less health then they did in table top.

On the TT the armor had a lot more meaning though.

User avatar
BrianDavion
Posts: 1017
Joined: 12 March 2016, 02:32
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby BrianDavion » 22 June 2016, 22:53

Corswain wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:I'm going to point out strike cruisers have no less health then they did in table top.

On the TT the armor had a lot more meaning though.



ohh agreed, they NEED to nerf AP shells.

Dulio12385
Posts: 10
Joined: 27 May 2016, 03:26
Contact:

Re: My inital impressions and opions of the SM faction

Postby Dulio12385 » 22 June 2016, 23:03

Played a few rounds on Skirmish For SM's it seems that their greatest Achilles' heel is their greatly attenuated sensor radius. If MWJ is auto-include for IN, Augur Probe is it for SM fleet since their principal weapons, the Thundrhawk and the Boarding Torps, are so heavily dependent on identifying enemies, unless you are willing spring for lots and lots of escorts which also works.

I hope the Tau will be the inverse of this because while the SM have good armor and guns for cc to compensate for their short range sensors, Tau are the very definition of the kiting fleet. Their entire arsenal is crippled if they have no sensor lock.


Return to “Adeptus Astartes”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests