When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Discuss the Space Marine fleet. There is only the Emperor, and he is our shield and protector.
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Azrael
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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Azrael » 21 June 2016, 14:43

kcswanson wrote:
Azrael wrote:I know it was mentioned in one of the Horus Heresy audio books, though I can't recall which one exactly.

It isn't exactly turning the void shields inside out, but the system uses the same generators as the void shields so the ship is vulnerable and has no protection in the event it is discovered.

And if it was in a HH audio book its likely not still around.


Not necessarily. If the Raven Guard ships survived the Heresy, then there is a good chance that the technology remains. And seeing as how there were Raven Guard that were not sent to Istvaan, it is an easy conclusion to make that they are still in service.

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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Scorch715 » 21 June 2016, 14:46

kcswanson wrote:
Azrael wrote:I know it was mentioned in one of the Horus Heresy audio books, though I can't recall which one exactly.

It isn't exactly turning the void shields inside out, but the system uses the same generators as the void shields so the ship is vulnerable and has no protection in the event it is discovered.

And if it was in a HH audio book its likely not still around.


Always possible. The Storm of Wrath and Spear of Vengeance are Imperial Fist battle barges from before the heresy, and according to the 5th Edition marine codex are the oldest such ships still in service. Plus there are plenty of other astartes vessels from the crusade-era still in service. Entirely possible the ship is still around, although it is 40k, so they've probably forgotten how to turn on the stealth drive

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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Formosa » 21 June 2016, 16:06

Scorch715 wrote:
Formosa wrote:The Raven Guard had some pretty good stealth tech, turning the void shields inside out, stopping any kind of emissions escaping into space, making them near invisible, it would even likely make them invisible to the naked eye, since all radiation is blocked.


Thats new (or incredibly old in 40k's case). Have you got a source on that?


yeah of course dude, Ravens flight, Corax, soulforge, etc.

They are called Reflex shields if I remember correctly, remember that most astartes vessels are from the GC era, so id imagine this tech to be rare, but still there, a good example, salamanders still have pyroclasts in 40k, in the most recent 40k book for them, they also had thallax.

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Lockerd
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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Lockerd » 22 June 2016, 21:37

there could be a number of contributing factors in this.

from the "Plausibility" of the chapters near or passing through the gothic sector, to the TT rules.

personally however, I am under the impression the UM, IF, BA, DA, SW, are the few remaining chapters still stocked well enough with Space Marine ships like Battle Barges, and Strike Cruisers, most other chapters lost their great warships in too great numbers to be represented fully.
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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Algesan » 04 July 2016, 16:55

Scorch715 wrote:
Kadaeux wrote:I see this is the butthurt folks thread.

Anybody who for even a second entertained that we'd get a lineup any different to the one we did are literally delusional.


Sadly people are going to moan anyway because its cool to hate on the main chapters for not being edgy enough. Personally, I just wanted the Imperial Fists or one of their successors to be included, so I'm happy
Yeah, I can live with the IF some, even if they still use witches. I'd have preferred Black Templars.

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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby BrianDavion » 06 July 2016, 09:09

Lockerd wrote:there could be a number of contributing factors in this.

from the "Plausibility" of the chapters near or passing through the gothic sector, to the TT rules.

personally however, I am under the impression the UM, IF, BA, DA, SW, are the few remaining chapters still stocked well enough with Space Marine ships like Battle Barges, and Strike Cruisers, most other chapters lost their great warships in too great numbers to be represented fully.


totally false. we don't know the precise fleet count of many chapters, but we do know the fleet count for Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights.

before I go further, I'm gonna note that space marine chapters are generally divided into two lose types. Fleet Based chapters, that have no real home world, and are based off their fleet. (example: Dark Angels, Imperial fists, Black Templars, Blood Ravens, just to name a few) and "Domain based chapters" that posess a homeworld (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights would also fit there) fleet based chapters are noted as having larger fleets then domain based chapters.

so, how are the fleet sizes?

let's look at them..

Grey Knights: 4 Battle Barges, 12 strike Cruisers, 8 Rapid Strike Vessels (the offical name for SM escorts)
Ultramarines: 3 Battle Barges, 8 Strike Cruisers, 12 Rapid Strike Vessels (it's worth noting Ultramar maintains it's own defence fleet as well. we can't be sure how big it is but it's proably a few lunar class cruisers or something)
Dark Angels: 8 Battle Barges, 16 Strike Cruisers, 21 rapid strike vessels
Blood Angels: 2 Battle Barges, 7 Strike Cruisers, 16 rapid strike vessels
Space Wolves: 8 battle Barges, 30+ Strike Cruisers, 40+ rapid strike vessel Squadrons (don't think too hard about the logistics of how they'd maintain a fleet of this size with a single feral world as their holding)

ignoring the space wolves as an outlier, it would seem that domain based space marine chapters likely average just under a dozen capital ships, with a chapter with 9 or less capital ships likely being "somewhat under supplied" from a transport sense (they ideally need a transport for each company after all) fleet absed chapters proably have double the average, and the dark angels numbers bear this out

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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Imperator5 » 06 July 2016, 16:46

The Blood Ravens got 4 known battlebarges and 4 known Strike cruisers, though one of the latter was destroyed by the Tyranids.

I would imagine the biggest fleet belongs to the Black Templars.
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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Scorch715 » 06 July 2016, 19:07

BrianDavion wrote:
totally false. we don't know the precise fleet count of many chapters, but we do know the fleet count for Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights.

before I go further, I'm gonna note that space marine chapters are generally divided into two lose types. Fleet Based chapters, that have no real home world, and are based off their fleet. (example: Dark Angels, Imperial fists, Black Templars, Blood Ravens, just to name a few) and "Domain based chapters" that posess a homeworld (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights would also fit there) fleet based chapters are noted as having larger fleets then domain based chapters.

so, how are the fleet sizes?

let's look at them..

Grey Knights: 4 Battle Barges, 12 strike Cruisers, 8 Rapid Strike Vessels (the offical name for SM escorts)
Ultramarines: 3 Battle Barges, 8 Strike Cruisers, 12 Rapid Strike Vessels (it's worth noting Ultramar maintains it's own defence fleet as well. we can't be sure how big it is but it's proably a few lunar class cruisers or something)
Dark Angels: 8 Battle Barges, 16 Strike Cruisers, 21 rapid strike vessels
Blood Angels: 2 Battle Barges, 7 Strike Cruisers, 16 rapid strike vessels
Space Wolves: 8 battle Barges, 30+ Strike Cruisers, 40+ rapid strike vessel Squadrons (don't think too hard about the logistics of how they'd maintain a fleet of this size with a single feral world as their holding)

ignoring the space wolves as an outlier, it would seem that domain based space marine chapters likely average just under a dozen capital ships, with a chapter with 9 or less capital ships likely being "somewhat under supplied" from a transport sense (they ideally need a transport for each company after all) fleet absed chapters proably have double the average, and the dark angels numbers bear this out


Whats your source for these figures? I'm not debating them, I'm just curious if you had a single source I could look at or if this was drawn from all the background knowledge.

Two things I want to contribute: firstly, the Ultramarines' Dominion Fleet is significantly larger than a couple of cruisers, and is more comparable to a battlefleet in its composition. Notably, the battleship Vae Victis served in the dominion fleet for a couple of centuries at least before being reassigned to Batttlefleet Bakka.

Secondly, its also worth noting fleet-based chapters often also maintain mobile starforts as bases. The Phalanx of the Imperial Fists, the Rapturous Rex of the Fire Hawks, etc. The Black Templars are a tad different in that they have the Eternal Crusader, which depending on what you read is anything from a modified battle barge to the last example of a Gloriana-class battleship in the Imperium. In any case, fleet-based chapters are far better equipped with starships.

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BrianDavion
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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby BrianDavion » 06 July 2016, 19:55

Scorch715 wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
totally false. we don't know the precise fleet count of many chapters, but we do know the fleet count for Blood Angels, Ultramarines, Dark Angels, Space Wolves, and Grey Knights.

before I go further, I'm gonna note that space marine chapters are generally divided into two lose types. Fleet Based chapters, that have no real home world, and are based off their fleet. (example: Dark Angels, Imperial fists, Black Templars, Blood Ravens, just to name a few) and "Domain based chapters" that posess a homeworld (Ultramarines, Blood Angels, Space Wolves, Grey Knights would also fit there) fleet based chapters are noted as having larger fleets then domain based chapters.

so, how are the fleet sizes?

let's look at them..

Grey Knights: 4 Battle Barges, 12 strike Cruisers, 8 Rapid Strike Vessels (the offical name for SM escorts)
Ultramarines: 3 Battle Barges, 8 Strike Cruisers, 12 Rapid Strike Vessels (it's worth noting Ultramar maintains it's own defence fleet as well. we can't be sure how big it is but it's proably a few lunar class cruisers or something)
Dark Angels: 8 Battle Barges, 16 Strike Cruisers, 21 rapid strike vessels
Blood Angels: 2 Battle Barges, 7 Strike Cruisers, 16 rapid strike vessels
Space Wolves: 8 battle Barges, 30+ Strike Cruisers, 40+ rapid strike vessel Squadrons (don't think too hard about the logistics of how they'd maintain a fleet of this size with a single feral world as their holding)

ignoring the space wolves as an outlier, it would seem that domain based space marine chapters likely average just under a dozen capital ships, with a chapter with 9 or less capital ships likely being "somewhat under supplied" from a transport sense (they ideally need a transport for each company after all) fleet absed chapters proably have double the average, and the dark angels numbers bear this out


Whats your source for these figures? I'm not debating them, I'm just curious if you had a single source I could look at or if this was drawn from all the background knowledge.

Two things I want to contribute: firstly, the Ultramarines' Dominion Fleet is significantly larger than a couple of cruisers, and is more comparable to a battlefleet in its composition. Notably, the battleship Vae Victis served in the dominion fleet for a couple of centuries at least before being reassigned to Batttlefleet Bakka.

Secondly, its also worth noting fleet-based chapters often also maintain mobile starforts as bases. The Phalanx of the Imperial Fists, the Rapturous Rex of the Fire Hawks, etc. The Black Templars are a tad different in that they have the Eternal Crusader, which depending on what you read is anything from a modified battle barge to the last example of a Gloriana-class battleship in the Imperium. In any case, fleet-based chapters are far better equipped with starships.


my sources are the space marines, grey Knights, blood angels, dark angels and space wolves Codices.
as for the Ultramarine domain fleet yeah I figured it may have been far bigger, but was lowballing.

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Re: When do we get the cool Space Marine Chapters?

Postby Imperator5 » 06 July 2016, 20:46

Since Ultramar is a large area, it is not beyond reason for the Navy to use the Ultramarine controlled worlds as part of their base too, since the local population will most likely be more dutiful than most.
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