How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

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Draxynnic
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Draxynnic » 26 June 2016, 03:34

ArtisticMink made pretty much exactly the same post in a different thread. To summarise my response:

1) Somebody is always going to have to be the fastest. For a hit-and-run race, Eldar have a lot of disadvantages that makes hit-and-run more difficult: most of their weapons require them to be facing the target and are relatively short-ranged, and holofields mean that even the briefest engagement has some chance of causing lasting damage.

2) Eldar players hit and run partly because knife-fighting puts a massive micro burden on the player. If they can't hit and run, either that micro burden needs to be reduced, or Eldar are going to become pretty much impossible to run effectively without permanent Tactical Cogitator, and could be hard even WITH the TC.

Now, according to lore:

1) Eldar fleets hit-and-run.
2) Eldar ship weapons have medium ranges - the equivalent of 6000-9000 in the game.
3) Eldar ships have holofields that misdirect rather than block attacks entirely. (The holofields being more effective when moving is NOT part of the lore - I think that's a mechanic to attempt to replicate the TT Eldar being able to move-shoot-move in real-time, by making Eldar harder to hit when they're moving at speed. Lorewise, holofields themselves are just as effective stationary as at speed, although holofields plus speed can make a target even harder to hit (in tabletop, shooting batteries at any ship side-on was the hardest to hit, followed by tail-on).
4) Eldar have high firepower, but are fragile.

Reducing their ranges to point blank would not be Eldar. Eldar using conventional shields would not be Eldar.

Personally, I think the first step would be normalising pulsars. As they currently stand, the high need for skillshots, coupled with the rest of the micro burden involved in playing Eldar, makes it so that it's basically impossible to balance Eldar at all levels - balancing them for the top players would make them weak for everyone else, balancing them for regular players would make them too strong at the top (see here for a more complete explanation). It's worth noting that tabletop pulsars only averaged 75% more effective than regular lances (you only got to even roll for the final hit if the first two landed), so normalised pulsars could be balanced to around that level of power.

From there, I think the rest can be balanced to suit. With pulsars as they are, I genuinely don't think it can be done.

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Maxajax
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Maxajax » 09 July 2016, 15:12

As an Eldar player that primarily fights through the use of Bombers, I've never really cared too much about my pulsars other than for dropping enemy shields to tag my prey with a Wandering Spirit Stone. On the rare occasions when I am allowed to freecast I do acknowledge that they trump any other direct fire weapon in the game. As of the date of posting it is extremely rare to find a Level 8 player that is willingly going to let you get away with free-casting though.

However, whenever I log onto my L8 Chaos or Imperial for a game and end up fighting Eldar players, I find that (having learned the counters to Eldar the hard way) taking out anything short of a Voidstalker is redundantly easy. 99% of the Eldar players seem to use Pulsars, so if your team is able to keep pressure on the Voidstalker, it generally has to keep moving away. If it's moving away it can not fire pulsars. Meanwhile my ships will happily Nova them, or send bombers at them, or both. The voidstalker is a slippery fish, but the way most people play it, it's not that bad at all.

StarSauron
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby StarSauron » 24 August 2016, 16:43

Will there be any Updates on Eldar game style.

I mean there must be something else than they are either overpowered or do suck.

Hallbregg
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Hallbregg » 24 August 2016, 19:33

StarSauron wrote:Will there be any Updates on Eldar game style.

I mean there must be something else than they are either overpowered or do suck.


Eldar is definetly OP at the moment.

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Bosie
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Bosie » 27 August 2016, 18:49

Hallbregg wrote:
StarSauron wrote:Will there be any Updates on Eldar game style.

I mean there must be something else than they are either overpowered or do suck.


Eldar is definetly OP at the moment.


Nah. A couple of game modes are insta win if your Eldar, such as Assassination defender and Breakout attacker. Other than those Eldar are okay, unless they have a top notch admiral who is patient.
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Ashardalon
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Ashardalon » 27 August 2016, 23:35

when fighting orks rangers mean autowin, and a very boring and annoying autowin
eldar still need a lot of work
otherwise waiting 150sec and warping out is the most fun way to deal with it
rangers will hopefully be fixed next update
hopefully that will make fighting them with orks bearable
but there really is no race with which its fun to fight eldar

Ouroboros85
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Ouroboros85 » 09 September 2016, 09:49

If they are having this much trouble balancing the eldar and making them both fun and competetive to play with a variety of stratergies I fear for the day when they introduce the original game breakers on tabletop, the necrons.

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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 09 September 2016, 23:14

Ouroboros85 wrote:If they are having this much trouble balancing the eldar and making them both fun and competetive to play with a variety of stratergies I fear for the day when they introduce the original game breakers on tabletop, the necrons.


Not really, Rapecrons... ekhm, I meant Necrons were ridiculously OP but their mechanics weren't as unique as Eldar.

Eldar's problems lie with them having no typical void shields (Novas, lightnings go right through to the hull), having to stay on the move to keep the holofields up and not die instantly at least, and at the same time having most of their weaponry on the prow, which doesn't work well with having to constantly move. Tau can sit back and throw everything in front of them, Eldar have to face the enemy AND move, which forces them to close in, something they don't want either. If their weapons were less burst dmg focused but could fire broadside, that would massively change the way Eldar have to be played, for the better IMO. But such change would be too drastic from the TT and GW would be butthurt, something we don't want to happen after they allowed to make BFG video game in the first place.

In TT this Eldar pattern worked well because it was turn based, with Eldar being capable of moving, turning AND firing much more often than other races.
Prow weaponry plus being forced to move plus not having blocking shields doesn't work as well in RTS. It's a problem connected with the very basis of the race and GW is guilty, not Tindalos.

Rap...... ugh, Necrons can just have their stats nerfed and that's it, Eldar would need more thorough changes, changes that GW won't allow.
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StarSauron
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby StarSauron » 10 September 2016, 06:16

Well Tau are surprisingly good. Long ranged , armoured and good fire power.

But you can easy handle them, attack from side, they are weak in close combat , weak vs torpedoes, weak vs long range chaos and you dont have to chase them. As long you keep formation as tau , you can win, so its fun for all to play vs or as tau.



In my opinion all that eldar need right now, is just to be transformed in a properly close ranged action.
Their speed, fragility and long range just do suck as game experience.
Just speed, manoeuvrability/ immune to ramming damage and close range weapons, that will be good.

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Sagranda
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Re: How it feels if you play vs Eldar as any other faction ? Do we want them to be reworked ?

Postby Sagranda » 10 September 2016, 11:16

Tau are probably the strongest faction against carriers and Torpedoes thanks to the Custodian/Messenger Escort trait ability and the extra range for defensive turrets.
Seeker Missile also makes them not as weak at CQC as they appear to be.
In addition they have that awesome push skill. It doesn't push too far, but it is still able to keep enemy ships easily at bay. An Ork charging at you? Well, not anymore
I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears
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