Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

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Bludfist
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Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Bludfist » 07 May 2016, 02:12

With the coming pulsar changes many are saying that most "bad eldar players whom are abusing pulsars", will resort to eldar kiting carrier fleets and they predict the BOMBERAPOCOLYPSE

Carrier fleets rely on the enemy themselves not fielding a defensive carrier which between a fighter screen and AA turrents hard counter carrier fleets but while i know eldar bombers are much harder to destroy, are they good enough to make an eldar carrier fleet viable?
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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby aprg » 07 May 2016, 03:44

No, not really.

The Solaris fields a single ordnance bay. The Eclipse and Voidstalker field more, but how much damage did those ever do compared to pulsars?

Let me put it this way: when I tried to play torpedo and bomber Eldar, most people complained that I was making the game unfun because I was spending all my time running away, waiting for my bombers and torps to whittle away 800 or more Hull points. If I didn't make a mistake and screw up, most game ran to the 20 minutes. Or the opponent warped out of boredom.

I feel like a lot of people who complain about Eldar have never tried actually playing them.

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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Ivanna » 07 May 2016, 11:48

Their only decent carrier is the Voidstalker, which they can only field one of. Eldar bombers are nice to supplement other damage sources, but they will never be the primary source of damage. You'd get more out of 9km Star cannon builds. I've actually been running Shadows doing this and it does work to an extent. The Wraithbourne reinforcement skill, combined with the Holofield upgrades and Brace for Impact, means you take very little damage from Macros, even when stationary.

I am looking forward to the Star cannon buffs, if only to provide more viable play styles than just Pulsar, although I still love the concept of Pulsars and believe it definitely has its place.

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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby MadDemiurg » 07 May 2016, 12:33

It's more or less the same as Chaos carrier kite, except with better kiting and no shields.

Eldar launchbays with maxed pilots are about 2x times as strong as Chaos launchbays with maxed pilots as far as bombers go (for fighters the advantage is much smaller).

Chaos can bring 12 launchbays max. Eldar can bring 8 launchbays max (VS + 4 Solaris), but Solaris is flimsy, and a more reasonable setup would be good old Eclipse + VS with 6 launchbays which is still about as strong as 12 Chaos launchbays in terms of bomber damage that gets through.

Specifically about MUs:

IN - Carriers take MUCH more time to kill IN that pulsar, so most likely IN will win attrition nova game (Chaos does not have this problem with replenishable shields that stop even 2 direct nova hits if you upgrade). Not really viable.

Chaos - would come down to long and elaborate stealth games on both sides if players are good as stealth is the best counter to bombers. Could drag on for a really long time.

Orks - Blood axe orks can counter with novas (and running silent to counter bomber waves), but very rng reliant and would depend on how fast ork novas blow up. Otherwise carrier strategy is more difficult to counter than pulsar runs, so overall would be really problematic and annoying for orks.

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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Auzor » 07 May 2016, 17:43

Bludfist wrote:With the coming pulsar changes many are saying that most "bad eldar players whom are abusing pulsars", will resort to eldar kiting carrier fleets and they predict the BOMBERAPOCOLYPSE

Carrier fleets rely on the enemy themselves not fielding a defensive carrier which between a fighter screen and AA turrents hard counter carrier fleets but while i know eldar bombers are much harder to destroy, are they good enough to make an eldar carrier fleet viable?


-What upcoming Pulsar changes?
And are there changes to the starcannons & what are those?

-Kiting carrier eldar:
at what points level?
250 pts? Double Solaris works, extremely well.
300 pts: still;
400 pts: eeh.. the lack of a good cruiser hurts

I think the Eclipse only has 1 launch bay.. so "meh".

500 pts:
1 Voidstalker @ 256, 2 Solaris @ 109, for combined cost of 474 pts. 6 launch bays. No escort to scout, but use a probe thingie.
The "max" chaos fleet could bring 2 Styx & a hellbringer for 10 launch bays. At that point & considering Voidstalker pulsar vs Styx lances, Eldar > Chaos. Also realistically that Chaos fleet would be easier to close with, and then an Ork does tractor beam..
600 - 700 points: again, no good cruiser, no carrier- BC (only 1 launch bay.. )
Vs other eldar, Solaris fleet might work, as pulsars bounce of holofields.

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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Bludfist » 07 May 2016, 18:07

Auzor wrote:
Bludfist wrote:With the coming pulsar changes many are saying that most "bad eldar players whom are abusing pulsars", will resort to eldar kiting carrier fleets and they predict the BOMBERAPOCOLYPSE

Carrier fleets rely on the enemy themselves not fielding a defensive carrier which between a fighter screen and AA turrents hard counter carrier fleets but while i know eldar bombers are much harder to destroy, are they good enough to make an eldar carrier fleet viable?


-What upcoming Pulsar changes?
And are there changes to the starcannons & what are those?

-Kiting carrier eldar:
at what points level?
250 pts? Double Solaris works, extremely well.
300 pts: still;
400 pts: eeh.. the lack of a good cruiser hurts

I think the Eclipse only has 1 launch bay.. so "meh".

500 pts:
1 Voidstalker @ 256, 2 Solaris @ 109, for combined cost of 474 pts. 6 launch bays. No escort to scout, but use a probe thingie.
The "max" chaos fleet could bring 2 Styx & a hellbringer for 10 launch bays. At that point & considering Voidstalker pulsar vs Styx lances, Eldar > Chaos. Also realistically that Chaos fleet would be easier to close with, and then an Ork does tractor beam..
600 - 700 points: again, no good cruiser, no carrier- BC (only 1 launch bay.. )
Vs other eldar, Solaris fleet might work, as pulsars bounce of holofields.


Removal of the 3k range pulsar upgrade

It will be replaced with an upgrade of some sort for star cannons
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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby CALiGeR190 » 07 May 2016, 18:43

Bludfist wrote:With the coming pulsar changes many are saying that most "bad eldar players whom are abusing pulsars", will resort to eldar kiting carrier fleets and they predict the BOMBERAPOCOLYPSE

Carrier fleets rely on the enemy themselves not fielding a defensive carrier which between a fighter screen and AA turrents hard counter carrier fleets but while i know eldar bombers are much harder to destroy, are they good enough to make an eldar carrier fleet viable?

Eldar Carriers are really 'support only' ships.
They are better strike craft individually, but you'll get outnumbered by Imp, Chaos or even Ork carrier fleets(for the few Ork carrier fleets that exist...) 3-1 in almost all cases. This means you'll be less effective in defending against their attacks as they are against yours, and your burst potential will be much lower and more easily blocked by their own fighter screens.

The only 'good' carrier builds they can really have are way down at 300 points where they can have 2 Solaris CLs (which instantly trumps the IN or Ork alternatives when played to their strengths, but is inferior to a pair of Hellbringers) or the Void stalker... but they can only ever have one of them, and both the Despoiler and Emperor are better (at least defensively) as carriers.

The Eldar are basicly held up as a race by the power of their Pulsars, and with them being nerfed, I have a nasty feeling they'll lose their niche and become severely underpowered... much like how I felt about the IN brawl vs Ork brawl prior to their nerf: they cant do the carrier thing, others (Chaos AND IN) do it much better.
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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Solitaire_7 » 07 May 2016, 18:55

Bludfist wrote:With the coming pulsar changes many are saying that most "bad eldar players whom are abusing pulsars", will resort to eldar kiting carrier fleets and they predict the BOMBERAPOCOLYPSE

Carrier fleets rely on the enemy themselves not fielding a defensive carrier which between a fighter screen and AA turrents hard counter carrier fleets but while i know eldar bombers are much harder to destroy, are they good enough to make an eldar carrier fleet viable?


Well the issue is the fragility of the fleet. As an ork word say dey iz made o paper".

Carrier fleets are option two of our stunted fleet roster choices. It's nothing personal greenskin it is just a fact that if players can't handle close range runs with Pulsars they are going to switch too long range carrier kite like chaos. BB has carrier bays along with the battlecruiser and second light cruiser.

We have one battleship choice (no kps), one battlecruiser choice (no kps), one cruiser choice (no kps) and two light cruiser choices one of which is a carrier.

Me shrugs go figure..................
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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Beernchips » 07 May 2016, 19:07

Eldar carrier fleet have same limits as Chaos carrier fleet.
Eldars bombers have better survivablity than Chaos but you field less so in the end its quite the same.
And any fighter screen will rape you badly
In the end Eldar carrier fleet will be almost unkillable with speed but can t really kill anything if enemy blob and add some fighters in their blob
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Re: Eldar carrier fleets, are they more viable than others?

Postby Thedrik » 08 May 2016, 03:00

Beernchips wrote:In the end Eldar carrier fleet will be almost unkillable with speed but can t really kill anything if enemy blob and add some fighters in their blob


Yeah I've found with an eldar carrier fleet that I have to use the speed to try and get the enemy to string out so I can take them apart piece meal, blobing and/or fighters results in zero/little damage. This results in long games that are actually boring.
Last edited by Thedrik on 08 May 2016, 05:59, edited 1 time in total.


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