Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

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Deidryt
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby Deidryt » 06 May 2016, 23:50

Solitaire_7 wrote:TBH it is the lock down of the Siam-Hann Favour (which probably needs a re-work) that is my main issue. Three minutes of being detected and unable able to use their favour they paid 200-1600 renown for is one hell of a cheap trick. Not too mention negating the void blending they may have paid for. Recon Beacons are skills and so are very very cheap (25pts on a light cruiser) compared to the 200-1600pt favours they wipe out.

Okay so the widowmaker can detect to 10k but at least you can try to counter it. There is no counter for the 25pt recon beacon.

At the moment... the only defense is that most people don't think of using it. Just look at all the threads about people complaining that Eldar are OP.

Halstead
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby Halstead » 14 May 2016, 14:58

I find it amusing that OP is saying recon beacons shouldn't be placed so easily on eldar ships while their holofields are up when you can land lightning raid through said holofield.

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XViper
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby XViper » 14 May 2016, 15:27

To be honest, that is also a very frustrating issue.

Buffed Lightning Strikes = GG Eldar.

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Badgutz
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby Badgutz » 14 May 2016, 19:09

There is one rule for da Eldar and another for everyone else. I think it should be very difficult to teleport into a disrupted image. The whole idea behind holos is being ignored. If you can just teleport aboard an Eldar ship when it's fields are up why not send them a bomb instead ? It's utter rubbish there would be no Eldar ships Coz they would be blown to bits as soon as they got into lightening strike/ teleport range.

This needs balancing so they conform to the other races.
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angelshard
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby angelshard » 14 May 2016, 23:58

Regarding saim Han, if you use the disruption skill first your opponent will have to get within 2500 units to identify you, you can't put a beacon on an unidentified target. So used smartly you can avoid the issue. Also if a ship gets a beacon you don't lose movement, you can still get away.

Additionally, comparing holofield to shield isn't fair, one goes down quite fast the other stays up until you stop or lose generator. If you could only put beacon on an eldar ship without holofield it would happen once in a blue moon.

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby MadDemiurg » 15 May 2016, 01:05

Disruption to avoid beacons is not really feasible. At worst, the opponent needs 2 beacons (1 to uncover your ships, 2nd to tag them). If it's IN with 12.5k detection there's no way you can disrupt anything before getting beaconed. I agree that holos blocking the beacon woul effectively mean immunity, but either a miss chance (although I don't like RNG on abilities with huge cooldown), reduced duration or some way to remove probes would work as a solution.

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Facejack
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby Facejack » 15 May 2016, 02:22

I have been very vocal about the need for Eldar changes. I play all races but Eldar primarily.

This request is INSANE. Revealing a competent Eldar player is a difficult thing to do, and most critical part of countering them. Don't be rediculous. Having no shield is the downside, but having insane speed and short cooldown dash which doesn't break stealth along with saim han and augur disruptor is too strong if not for beacons.

As Eldar I can get away with never being revealed (except by IN 10k reveal range) for a whole match. The probe is totally avoidable. Only the beacon works, and even then I have to be revealed for you to place it on me (and even then, its only one ship revealed, and only for a limited, albeit, quite a long time).

This game needs more play and counter play (stealth vs augur cooldowns) not less of it. Good Lord Khaine, man! Don't cry about the only part of the Eldar interaction with other races that is actually working well.

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby MadDemiurg » 15 May 2016, 03:16

I only support changing this in case of pulsar range nerf. If pulsar have less range, Eldar would have to come into detection range to use them, and then using beacons on them would become too easy.

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Badgutz
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby Badgutz » 15 May 2016, 11:19

Facejack wrote:I have been very vocal about the need for Eldar changes. I play all races but Eldar primarily.

This request is INSANE. Revealing a competent Eldar player is a difficult thing to do, and most critical part of countering them. Don't be rediculous. Having no shield is the downside, but having insane speed and short cooldown dash which doesn't break stealth along with saim han and augur disruptor is too strong if not for beacons.

As Eldar I can get away with never being revealed (except by IN 10k reveal range) for a whole match. The probe is totally avoidable. Only the beacon works, and even then I have to be revealed for you to place it on me (and even then, its only one ship revealed, and only for a limited, albeit, quite a long time).

This game needs more play and counter play (stealth vs augur cooldowns) not less of it. Good Lord Khaine, man! Don't cry about the only part of the Eldar interaction with other races that is actually working well.


I don't think the OP is trying to get the recon beacon removed he is just not happy with the fact that you can just slap em on a disrupted image. They cost 25pts and they negate up to as much as 1600 renowns worth of favour skill for three minutes. That aint insane mate that is just how it is at the moment. Any other faction shields stop the placement of the probe. So my blood axes can still stealth away as long as I maintain shields. Eldar should get something or the recon probes three minute duration for just 25pts needs a fix.

As for lightening attacks I'll say it again if all the other races could just teleport on to a holofielded ship, and they can at the moment, then it follows that the easy counter would be to teleport torps with primed heads into eldar ships. There would be no eldar in space they'd all be blown up or the Eldar would adapt to fight from 9000+ and avoid getting into teleporter range. Holofields are very poorly implemented in this version of the game. I've watch Star Trek and usually once your shields are down and the bad guys start teleporting over well it aint good. The way it stands atm eldar holos are treated as always down against various cheap maneuvers.
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XViper
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Re: Recon Beacons vs Holofields rebalance this please !

Postby XViper » 16 May 2016, 01:31

Facejack wrote:As Eldar I can get away with never being revealed (except by IN 10k reveal range) for a whole match. The probe is totally avoidable. Only the beacon works, and even then I have to be revealed for you to place it on me (and even then, its only one ship revealed, and only for a limited, albeit, quite a long time).


You realise your argument is based entirely around forcing all Eldar players into one method of play?

Rather than allowing a mechanic that allows Beacons to be attached without issue, we should instead be focusing on how broken Running Silent + Augur Disruptor + Favor is, not coming up with reasons why it should be allowed.
Because while Beacon is a suitable counter to one situation, it also completely breaks the majority of other Eldar playstyles, which don't require hard counters in the first place.

Or perhaps introduce a skill/upgrade which allows the Recon to be 'purged' from the ship. (Like 'dispel' works in other games).
Repair should also do this in my opinion.


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