Eldar balance focus

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MadDemiurg » 05 May 2016, 14:20

Sagranda wrote:
No clue if it is bugged or not. Barely play the game these days until fixes/tweaks to some factions and match-making are made, but I agree that that which is OP should be nerfed (well, in this case both things, Pulsars and the Favour, need a nerf or rework though ;) )
But I called for a nerf of the Saim-Hann Favour as soon as I saw the corrected tooltip "back in the days".

And I usually ignore if something is bugged or not, since bugfixes are usually bound to happen.


Yeah, sure, I'm just saying that balancing the whole faction around Saim Hann numbers is not really a way to go, and +50% damage is crazy for a favour bonus.

Sagranda wrote:I agree that Saim-Hann will probably need to be addressed.

Do you know the cooldown of the current Solar Sails?
I don't have it in my head right now, but a reduced CD sounds good to me (so just right out of a gut feeling).

Not quite a fan of the other suggestion (bonus damage vs. sides/rear), but something should be done about the second part of the Saim-Hann Favour, too, since the detection range reduction against one single ship doesn't make much of a difference


Sails have 20 sec cd currently.

My Saim Hann suggestions are supposed to keep the similar flavour, but just replace a stealth sneak attack by a flanking sneak attack. The bonus would have to be much lower, like 15% for sides and 25% for rear. Sails cd for Saim Hann mobility theme and helping to flank easier.

Any alternative ideas are welcome though.

Revener
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Revener » 05 May 2016, 15:31

First fix the basics then when that is done start messing around with the favours and upgrades.

Problem at the moment is that we are pushed into a hit and run and fire deathstarlaser tactic unless you want o spends 20min kiting with the other ships. Reducing the range on the pulsar wil only push eldar further in the hide everyway we can then shoot and run builds, because I doubt they will buff the starcannon that much dpm wise, besides it alrady have a fairly high dpm for a "macro" cannon the problem is staying in the window of fire long enough.

Part of that problem is the faulty holofields that some developer dreamt up that goes down if you stand still, holofields should always be up as they are in TT.

The other problem is the armour, eldar have 25% armour in TT they have 50% (chaos 66.66%, IN 83.33%/66.66%, ork 83.33/66.66/50% in TT). They other races are closer to the armour they shoud have , the eldar have half the armour they should have.

These two thing makes eldar more way more fragile than they are in the boardgame that coupled with the fragile trait really makes you not want to get hit at all. For example one Mega cannon shot that get through can cripple a light cruiser.

If you want to use starcannons you have to move towards the opponent to stay on target and get some damage done since the holofield force you to move for no reason since they are implemented the wrong way.

Also Holofields should have a chance to stop torps and bombers. Eldar get good shields but fragile in return when they do get hit and less HP thats is the tradeoff.

If you compare all the races to how they are in the boardgame most of them are fairly close but the devs have made Eldar into something completley different.

Solution:
Make pulse work as in the TT a normal lance that have a 50% chance to shoot again up to 3 times total if you do damage. Then a little bit longer reload compared to the average lance I guess would be prudent since this is an RTS not a turn based game :)

Holofields should always be up and work against torps and bombers too so you actually don't get crippled when you go for a strafing run. Wich is what Eldar are about since in TT the only thing they have that shoot further than 6km is torps and bombers apart from the voidstalker wich shoots 9km (45cm) but in return it is slower. In the TT you can't run around basically invisible.

Armour should be set to TT values or but since no other ship have their TT value but a little bit lower and I have done the relative match for that somewher around 40% seems right in relations to the others.

If this is done the ship work you can go in with your speed and do strafing runs with your frontal guns and get a longer window of fire or you can actually stop at 6km without your holofields going down and then go awy when the oppent turns towards you.

Eldar should play like the other races with a twist not like something completley different. Something completley differnt that you have to cater to specifically to beat wil always piss players off since in all reality IN/Chaos/ork can basically be beaten with totally randomized builds whereas it is really hard to beat eldar if you lack certain skills.


I've also spent a few days trying to play with starcannons and bombers it is really underwhelming.


----edit-----
P.S I actually quite like the Alaotic Cameleoline Alloy that the topic startes so no use for, can set up nice ambushes with it.

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Nuadhu
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Nuadhu » 06 May 2016, 01:38

I want to echo calls for a diversification of Eldar rather than a vicious rebalancing of the current playstyle.

Eldar are very different and that variety livens up the game. I think rebalancing should focus on diversifying the fleet's abilities so several styles can be tried.

By all means balance the current issues, but I have faith that can be achieved along with diversity.
War is my master, death my mistress.

Orkan
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Orkan » 06 May 2016, 04:12

With the incoming Range reduction on Pulsar there will be concern that the escorts and light cruisers will be most affected. What will happen to these, will their fragility be adjusted if they are to operate at 6k range? It seems that these will suffer most and what changes are we to expect to allow eldar escorts and light cruisers to remain viable?

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Mr Morden
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Mr Morden » 06 May 2016, 11:12

Maybe have it that the Eldar player always has tactical co-ordinator and the opponent can't use it (unless also Eldar) - not sure if that's technically possible but would be fun to have the Eldar player watching the MonKeigh flounder about and he or she has loads of time ;)

or not............
Imperial - Lady Lukara (8), Chaos - Abraxus (8), Eldar - Flower of Carnage (2) , Orks - Big Bazza (6), Wolve - Floki (6) :mrgreen:

Revener
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Revener » 06 May 2016, 13:19

Mr Morden wrote:Maybe have it that the Eldar player always has tactical co-ordinator and the opponent can't use it (unless also Eldar) - not sure if that's technically possible but would be fun to have the Eldar player watching the MonKeigh flounder about and he or she has loads of time ;)

or not............

LOL oh the rage that would reach the forums :)

Revener
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Revener » 06 May 2016, 13:20

Nuadhu wrote:I want to echo calls for a diversification of Eldar rather than a vicious rebalancing of the current playstyle.

Eldar are very different and that variety livens up the game. I think rebalancing should focus on diversifying the fleet's abilities so several styles can be tried.

By all means balance the current issues, but I have faith that can be achieved along with diversity.


That is what my proposal try to achieve it would make them less extreme but stil be able to hit and run.

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Solitaire_7
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Solitaire_7 » 06 May 2016, 13:26

With the imminent arrival next month ? Of the genetically modified Monkeighs (Space Marines) I pray the changes will still make us viable against such heavily armed, relatively fast (for Monkeighs), and heavily armoured foes. Time will tell all.........
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MadDemiurg » 06 May 2016, 13:31

Solitaire_7 wrote:With the imminent arrival next month ? Of the genetically modified Monkeighs (Space Marines) I pray the changes will still make us viable against such heavily armed, relatively fast (for Monkeighs), and heavily armoured foes. Time will tell all.........


SM look very dead to Eldar if AP is not changed. Their cruisers in campaign have 75 armour but the same health as LCs. And they're fast, but not faster than Chaos.

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Deuzerre
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Deuzerre » 06 May 2016, 14:21

All their ships have ordonnance though, so they can intercept bombers and send hordes of bombers themselves.
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