Eldar balance focus

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MadDemiurg » 05 May 2016, 11:54

I have lvl 8 Eldar Orks and Chaos, level 7 IN atm. I do play enough (although I'm not sure what "a lot" means for you). Eldar do not "oneshot" ships if you defend properly, this is a clear overexaggeration. It usually takes about 3 runs to take out a cruiser or a BC is it's specced properly. I'm not agruing that pulsar hit like hell, but it's manageable. You put your overcharged shields and brace on autocast and interrupt Eldar runs with your own offensive MWJs, aoe skills etc. You use your own fighters to shied from eldar bombers etc. Starcannons are not really in the equasion cause no one upgrades their range on pulsar ships and @6k Eldar just try to run (rightfully so, cause they are screwed if they stay).

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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MaxRim » 05 May 2016, 12:00

Solitaire_7 wrote:
MaxRim wrote:You can try do the maths all day long -.-

I'm just waiting for you to lose constantly to eldar one hitting your ships and you not being able to do anything about it and see how you react lol. I know its bound to happen soon you just seem to not play much. So go now, play.


Go read some guides there are many ways to defeat us, brace for impact and taunt are a start. These forums are full of spoilers on how to kill Eldar. Just takes little time and effort to read them ...............

PS: Once you've figured it out you'll be hoping the next match isn't orks ;).


First you tell me i am wrong about you being an Eldar fan boy and then you come back here saying things like "how to defeat US" as if you believe you are an actual Eldar in real life which is further solidified by all your quotes and avatar.. lol. The whole eldar forum is about eldar being OP and asking for nerfs and this Eldar fan boy just wont accept that his all time favourite fiction race is gona be balanced.

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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MaxRim » 05 May 2016, 12:07

MadDemiurg wrote:I have lvl 8 Eldar Orks and Chaos, level 7 IN atm. I do play enough (although I'm not sure what "a lot" means for you). Eldar do not "oneshot" ships if you defend properly, this is a clear overexaggeration. It usually takes about 3 runs to take out a cruiser or a BC is it's specced properly. I'm not agruing that pulsar hit like hell, but it's manageable. You put your overcharged shields and brace on autocast and interrupt Eldar runs with your own offensive MWJs, aoe skills etc. You use your own fighters to shied from eldar bombers etc. Starcannons are not really in the equasion cause no one upgrades their range on pulsar ships and @6k Eldar just try to run (rightfully so, cause they are screwed if they stay).


Whatever lol i'm done with these arguments, it seems the ONLY TWO people on this entire fucking forum that are against eldar nerfs are you and solitare (judging by the name "solitare" im guessing this guy gives no shit about anyone else apart from himself and thinks this game is made for him therefore his all time favourite fiction race must be by far superior, everything about solitare screams this) MadDemiurg you're just going on about things unnecessarily, you are fighting a losing battle against yourself. Each time you lose to eldar (as you stated in this forum) and that eldar tells you that eldar is OP you keep telling yourself that it's not true. I really wonder how many times you're gona have to lose to eldar to finally admit to yourself the truth l0l. The thing is, as everyone can see, not many people play eldar because when you start eldar you think oh eldar sucks then you learn to play them get level 8 rape everybody and never go back because it gets so boring raping everybody before the game ever starts.

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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MaxRim » 05 May 2016, 12:11

Solitaire_7 wrote:
MaxRim wrote:Do NOT listen to solitare, he is a vivid Eldar fan boy and will do ANYTHING in his power to make them as OP as possible!

Chaining all your taunts which have a HUGE cooldown to kill ONE eldar ship is FAIR GAME! Why? Because a good eldar would have instantly killed a chosen ship in your fleet before you even pull off your first taunt or traktor! EVEN WITH THE RANGE NERF IT WILL HAPPEN! If you can't kill a ship you want as soon as you pop your pulsars as eldar YOU ARE PLAYING ELDAR WRONG! You must be missing many pulsars etc. Ship for ship trade is GOOD and the person with the most control of their fleet will end up winning. Eldar kills your ship as they appear - You catch one with taunts and traktors = you kill one of their ships, it's a trade and a fair one at that.

Also tailoring your entire fleet to combat one race is silly and the only race you need to do that for is eldar and even then you will more then likely lose unless the eldar player sucks.

Give more ship slots may or may not be a good idea, People need to understand that they are not game developers or designers and most of their suggestions are garbage, the only thing a gaming company needs to really hear is "THIS IS OVERPOWERED" or "THIS IS UNDERPOWERED" Then they get to work. It is ALOT more complicated then "oh we'll just make the cooldown on pulsars higher and thats that, we'll make em unable to shoot at blips too!" I mention this because the devs gave you a limited amount of ship slots for a REASON! It's not like they were blocked off from giving us more, there is a purpose behind it and it's probably got to do with longetivity (you need to make multiple accounts) which is why you make multiple accounts(admirals) to play separate races aswell. This tactic is not unheard of. Also, your ships and your fleet should feel UNIQUE, it's part of the experience and when you lose a ship it should HURT rather then "oh i got 50 more of them who cares :P" Plus once youve tailored your fleets to fight a specific race, what will you do when half of those ships are dead? either way what you ask for is just a dream which doesnt make sense. Just my two cents.


Major Trollage I play ork and Imperial too just loved 40k harlequins........... :lol:

PS: checkout my fleet suggestion in the build section it's not exactly pulsar focused and you seem to be the big Eldar fan it would seem from what you said earlier about your past...... Lets just focus on the real issues here ok ?




i just wanted to add, this guy is so compelled on making himself believe eldar is not OP and needs buffs that he makes a weird ass eldar fleet which is "not exactly pulsar focused" and constantly loses with, roflmao.
Last edited by MaxRim on 05 May 2016, 12:14, edited 1 time in total.

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MadDemiurg » 05 May 2016, 12:13

MaxRim wrote:
MadDemiurg wrote:I have lvl 8 Eldar Orks and Chaos, level 7 IN atm. I do play enough (although I'm not sure what "a lot" means for you). Eldar do not "oneshot" ships if you defend properly, this is a clear overexaggeration. It usually takes about 3 runs to take out a cruiser or a BC is it's specced properly. I'm not agruing that pulsar hit like hell, but it's manageable. You put your overcharged shields and brace on autocast and interrupt Eldar runs with your own offensive MWJs, aoe skills etc. You use your own fighters to shied from eldar bombers etc. Starcannons are not really in the equasion cause no one upgrades their range on pulsar ships and @6k Eldar just try to run (rightfully so, cause they are screwed if they stay).


Whatever lol i'm done with these arguments, it seems the ONLY TWO people on this entire fucking forum that are against eldar nerfs are you and solitare (judging by the name "solitare" im guessing this guy gives no shit about anyone else apart from himself and thinks this game is made for him therefore his all time favourite fiction race must be by far superior, everything about solitare screams this) MadDemiurg you're just going on about things unnecessarily, you are fighting a losing battle against yourself. Each time you lose to eldar (as you stated in this forum) and that eldar tells you that eldar is OP you keep telling yourself that it's not true. I really wonder how many times you're gona have to lose to eldar to finally admit to yourself the truth l0l. The thing is, as everyone can see, not many people play eldar because when you start eldar you think oh eldar sucks then you learn to play them get level 8 rape everybody and never go back because it gets so boring raping everybody before the game ever starts.


1) Eldar are not going to be nerfed, they are going to be rebalanced. I do agree that they need rebalancing. Which is why I started this thread. Pulsar need to be nerfed, but they are the only thing holding the race together atm. If they are nerfed, some of the other problems need to be solved too.
2) Actually a lot of reasonable people agree with me and I see no one agreeing with you thus far
3) I lose some and I win some vs Eldar which I think is fair. I don't expect to win every single fucking game
4) Please stop spamming this thread. For all your fanboy talk, it seems you've only registered here to make OMG NERF ELDAR posts without backing them up with any kind of solid arguments. I actually want to give more reasonable people a chance to say smth here. Thanks!

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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MaxRim » 05 May 2016, 12:22

Yep and i can beat a T-Rex aslong as it's tied up, asleep and blind folded.

You are right, i made this account for the sole purpose of shouting NERF ELDAR and i was relieved when i saw the entire eldar forum already doing so.

All the "balance" ideas you have for eldars sound like buffs to me apart from the nerfed range on pulsars thats why i invaded your thread because i dont want this good game to be led into a hole that it will never come out of (because of shit advertising) by somebody like you. I mean... you want to remove entire skills and change gameplay altogether for the sake of eldar...........!??!?!?!

You can have your thread back now lol i just really hope you dont poison a fraction of the community to the point where balance becomes retarded to the point where people CONTINUE to NOT play eldar and to leave games against eldar (i made a thread about leaving eldar games yes but the funny part is most people left games against me when i played eldar it got annoying and i made that post then switched to chaos further realising how OP eldar truley is) true story ~ good bye.

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MadDemiurg » 05 May 2016, 12:35

MaxRim wrote:Yep and i can beat a T-Rex aslong as it's tied up, asleep and blind folded.

You are right, i made this account for the sole purpose of shouting NERF ELDAR and i was relieved when i saw the entire eldar forum already doing so.

All the "balance" ideas you have for eldars sound like buffs to me apart from the nerfed range on pulsars thats why i invaded your thread because i dont want this good game to be led into a hole that it will never come out of (because of shit advertising) by somebody like you. I mean... you want to remove entire skills and change gameplay altogether for the sake of eldar...........!??!?!?!

You can have your thread back now lol i just really hope you dont poison a fraction of the community to the point where balance becomes retarded to the point where people CONTINUE to NOT play eldar and to leave games against eldar (i made a thread about leaving eldar games yes but the funny part is most people left games against me when i played eldar it got annoying and i made that post then switched to chaos further realising how OP eldar truley is) true story ~ good bye.


Taunt and traktor spam are already acknowledged to be problematic and lame in pretty much any other MU. There are tons of threads about removing taunt. With Eldar the problem is just overexaggerated.

Eldar do need buffs to come along with pulsar nerfs, because as I said pulsar are the only thing holding them together atm. Try to win a game vs someone competent with Shadows and aconties. Almost none of my suggestions are straight up numeric buffs, mostly they are about mitigating or adding some counterplay to rather lame skill spam tactics that are very difficult to deal with as Eldar (and other races, to a lesser extent, too). I believe these will no longer be needed once Eldar are forced to exchange fire with the enemy fleet.

As for poisoning the community - you seem to be doing fine yourself in this regard.

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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Sagranda » 05 May 2016, 12:54

2 Eclipse and 1 Voidstalker have a potential damage burst of 900

Taking armor into account: 675 damage

With the Saim-Hann Favour the damage gets increased to 1350

Taking armor into account: 1012,5 damage


1 Imperial Light Cruiser has 600 health and 200 shield points

1 Imperial Cruiser has 800 health and 200 shield points

1 Imperial Battlecruiser has 800 health and 200 shield points

1 Imperial Battleship has 1200 health and 400 health points

Same numbers for Chaos

So when everything hits it is possible to kill a Light Cruiser in one go and with Saim-Hann favour even a Battlecruiser.
But that doesn't take upgrades or skills into account through which ships can survive and the upgrades one would buy against Eldar are also effective against every other faction.
There's almost no need to "specialize" against them.


On the other hand, when the Eldar loses one ship, then he loses a potential 270/405 or 360/540 damage which immensely cuts down his damage.


MaxRim wrote:All the "balance" ideas you have for eldars sound like buffs to me apart from the nerfed range on pulsars thats why i invaded your thread because i dont want this good game to be led into a hole that it will never come out of (because of shit advertising) by somebody like you. I mean... you want to remove entire skills and change gameplay altogether for the sake of eldar...........!??!?!?!


Eldar are frail and there are a shit load of abilities that can keep you at 6k range, which makes it a huge risk for the Eldar to close in.
So when you nerf the range of the only worthwhile weapon, then you also have to tweak their survive-ability and/or buff the other weapons, Starcannons are currently a joke anyway, or else the game will be over in a minute against every competent player.
Even Orkz as the slowest and the most short ranged faction would have an easy play with them.
See them going in 6k range and preparing to shoot?
BIG RED BUTTON + Trakktor Kannon + Taunt and at least one ship will be gone and since they will be in detection range, the bonus damage of Saim-Hann also won't be applied.
In addition the Eldar have basically no defensive skills that help them in a direction shoot-out like the Overcharged Void Shields or Shield Transfer the other factions have.

Other factions can do it in a similar fashion, though I would use Stasis Bombs to trap the Eldar there, AHF and then go for boarding actions or just ram them down.
The Eldar can't turn around or he will be trapped in Stasis Bombs and flying through the enemy ships is pure suicide.

Being that close also means that they are exposing themselves to Lightning Strikes quite easily.


There's so much more to think about than just range and damage.
I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears
#FeelsWaaaghBoss

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby MadDemiurg » 05 May 2016, 13:14

Speaking of Saim Hann I find it behaving rather wierdly and not applying the bonus damage when it should. So I have an Ultwe fleet instead atm. If it did apply properly all the time however, it would be OP. But if you have 1 favour that is OP you nerf the favour, not the faction.

With the pulsar range nerf Saim Hann would become barely usable anyway (you'd need to combo it with augur disruptors to do anything) so I think it needs a rework (which I also have in my original suggestions).

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Re: Eldar balance focus

Postby Sagranda » 05 May 2016, 14:06

MadDemiurg wrote:Speaking of Saim Hann I find it behaving rather wierdly and not applying the bonus damage when it should. So I have an Ultwe fleet instead atm. If it did apply properly all the time however, it would be OP. But if you have 1 favour that is OP you nerf the favour, not the faction.


No clue if it is bugged or not. Barely play the game these days until fixes/tweaks to some factions and match-making are made, but I agree that that which is OP should be nerfed (well, in this case both things, Pulsars and the Favour, need a nerf or rework though ;) )
But I called for a nerf of the Saim-Hann Favour as soon as I saw the corrected tooltip "back in the days".

And I usually ignore if something is bugged or not, since bugfixes are usually bound to happen.


With the pulsar range nerf Saim Hann would become barely usable anyway (you'd need to combo it with augur disruptors to do anything) so I think it needs a rework (which I also have in my original suggestions).


I agree that Saim-Hann will probably need to be addressed.

Do you know the cooldown of the current Solar Sails?
I don't have it in my head right now, but a reduced CD sounds good to me (so just right out of a gut feeling).

Not quite a fan of the other suggestion (bonus damage vs. sides/rear), but something should be done about the second part of the Saim-Hann Favour, too, since the detection range reduction against one single ship doesn't make much of a difference
I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears
#FeelsWaaaghBoss


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