THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

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Draxynnic
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Re: THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

Postby Draxynnic » 07 May 2016, 03:11

Personally, I think this might be an area where we should go back to the tabletop.

Pulsars on the tabletop worked like everyone else’s lances, except that they had the opportunity to hit up to three times, including having a frontal arc rather than having to fire directly forward. Yes, the mounts on the models have them fixed forward or with limited ability to adjust, particularly on the escorts (however, the 'blisters' have always felt like turrets to me, and in the tabletop the Void Stalkers could fire two pulsars left and two right if it wanted to), but the same is true for Imperial prow lances such as the Dauntless and Firestorm, which in-game are shown awkwardly firing at an angle – and if any 40K race has the optics technology to bend a laser beam at the muzzle, it’s the Eldar. Currently, the directly-forward ‘skill shot’ aspect of pulsars appears to be Tindalos’ method of simulating the decreased chance of the second and third shots hitting by allowing the target ship to get out of the way before they land – instead, this could be represented by having the second shot do half damage and the third shot doing quarter damage (this could be explained as the shots draining the capacitors so each is a little weaker than the one before).

This would remove the ability to use a well-aimed skillshot to wipe out a blip through focused pulsar fire. Instead, the pulsars would (apart from having multiple shots) have the same mechanics as regular lances. With the diminishing strength of successive shots, it would also reduce the burst capability (which may need to be compensated for elsewhere, but that's a bridge that can be compensated for later).

This would also substantially reduce the micro burden on an Eldar player – instead of having most of their firepower coming from skillshots while they also have to keep their ships moving, they would only have the requirement to keep their ships moving on top of lining up torpedoes like everyone else.

Revener
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Re: THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

Postby Revener » 08 May 2016, 13:24

People need to stop focusing on just the Pulse lasers.

And start looking at the whole pictures of what to do with eldar.

But yeah pulse lasrer are not fun, especially not on the voidstalker, and the devs alreadysaid they will take away the range upgrade.
Problem compared to TT is that in TT you where never unspotted.

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Harlequin
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Re: THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

Postby Harlequin » 08 May 2016, 23:34

After a lot of Playtime (and leveling 3 Eldar Admirals up to 8), i came to the conclusion:

In my opinion, the problem with the Pulsars is not the range, or the mechanic behind it.
It's just the same problem with the Eldar Torps (or in other words: "why i am able to boost into my own torps^^").
It's because both weapons lacks the speed, to be useful for Eldar and their fast Gameplay.
(I came to this, while playing a large adeptuns mechanicus fleet, with twice torp-speed on every single ship^^).

for the Pulsars:

-let the range upgrade stay (edit: i am thinking, this won't be needed anymore) or not.
-Reduce the cooldown of the Pulsars by a large amount. To make it shot the same speed like.. let's say for example a chaos lance.
-Reducing the dmg dealt by Pulsars by a large amount. Because the cooldown is also reduced.
-increase the speed / rate of fire of Pulsars. Let them deal the 3 Pulsarshots into target in (for example 1,5 sec.).
-and of course, you need to detect the target first.

for the starcannons:

-dramatically increase the frequency how often they shot.
-maybe reduce damage a slight bit.
(makeing it more like Impulslasers, you know... pewpewpewpewpewpewpew^^)

And for the Shadow-class:

- Add another sort of Torpedo and or make a torp speed upgrade for Eldar torpedos avalible.

To balance this out with the Imperials:

-give imperials the ability to choose for each torp volley between a close spill and wide spill.

With this: The Eldar came into close range more often and for longer, means also getting shot more often and for longer.
(You also came to this by thinking about the nightmare of playing 8 hemlocks without tactical cognitator along your "real ships" whithout ramming or shooting yourself... :mrgreen:
Spoiler : :
Steam-Name: "Marilyn Manson"

"We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand."

"Death is my meat; terror my wine."

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MaxRim
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Re: THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

Postby MaxRim » 11 May 2016, 08:15

Harlequin wrote:After a lot of Playtime (and leveling 3 Eldar Admirals up to 8), i came to the conclusion:

In my opinion, the problem with the Pulsars is not the range, or the mechanic behind it.
It's just the same problem with the Eldar Torps (or in other words: "why i am able to boost into my own torps^^").
It's because both weapons lacks the speed, to be useful for Eldar and their fast Gameplay.
(I came to this, while playing a large adeptuns mechanicus fleet, with twice torp-speed on every single ship^^).

for the Pulsars:

-let the range upgrade stay (edit: i am thinking, this won't be needed anymore) or not.
-Reduce the cooldown of the Pulsars by a large amount. To make it shot the same speed like.. let's say for example a chaos lance.
-Reducing the dmg dealt by Pulsars by a large amount. Because the cooldown is also reduced.
-increase the speed / rate of fire of Pulsars. Let them deal the 3 Pulsarshots into target in (for example 1,5 sec.).
-and of course, you need to detect the target first.

for the starcannons:

-dramatically increase the frequency how often they shot.
-maybe reduce damage a slight bit.
(makeing it more like Impulslasers, you know... pewpewpewpewpewpewpew^^)

And for the Shadow-class:

- Add another sort of Torpedo and or make a torp speed upgrade for Eldar torpedos avalible.

To balance this out with the Imperials:

-give imperials the ability to choose for each torp volley between a close spill and wide spill.

With this: The Eldar came into close range more often and for longer, means also getting shot more often and for longer.
(You also came to this by thinking about the nightmare of playing 8 hemlocks without tactical cognitator along your "real ships" whithout ramming or shooting yourself... :mrgreen:



Sounds like another eldar player trying to secretly buff eldar lol.

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Harlequin
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Re: THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

Postby Harlequin » 12 May 2016, 10:52

Not really. :roll:

I just bring in my ideas, andit hopefully bring others and the devs to new ideas themselfes and so on... goal is only a working balance with fun for all factions. I also like it to play Chaos (i am a secret slaanesh-cultist^^), and also i am waiting for Necrons, but as main faction in BFG:A i look forward to play Dark Eldar like i do it most of the time in tabletop. :mrgreen:
Spoiler : :
Steam-Name: "Marilyn Manson"

"We bring only death, and leave only carrion. It is a message even a Human can understand."

"Death is my meat; terror my wine."

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Badgutz
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Re: THE BEST WAY TO FIX PULSARS.

Postby Badgutz » 12 May 2016, 14:21

Harlequin wrote:After a lot of Playtime (and leveling 3 Eldar Admirals up to 8), i came to the conclusion:

In my opinion, the problem with the Pulsars is not the range, or the mechanic behind it.
It's just the same problem with the Eldar Torps (or in other words: "why i am able to boost into my own torps^^").
It's because both weapons lacks the speed, to be useful for Eldar and their fast Gameplay.
(I came to this, while playing a large adeptuns mechanicus fleet, with twice torp-speed on every single ship^^).

for the Pulsars:

-let the range upgrade stay (edit: i am thinking, this won't be needed anymore) or not.
-Reduce the cooldown of the Pulsars by a large amount. To make it shot the same speed like.. let's say for example a chaos lance.
-Reducing the dmg dealt by Pulsars by a large amount. Because the cooldown is also reduced.
-increase the speed / rate of fire of Pulsars. Let them deal the 3 Pulsarshots into target in (for example 1,5 sec.).
-and of course, you need to detect the target first.

for the starcannons:

-dramatically increase the frequency how often they shot.
-maybe reduce damage a slight bit.
(makeing it more like Impulslasers, you know... pewpewpewpewpewpewpew^^)

And for the Shadow-class:

- Add another sort of Torpedo and or make a torp speed upgrade for Eldar torpedos avalible.

To balance this out with the Imperials:

-give imperials the ability to choose for each torp volley between a close spill and wide spill.

With this: The Eldar came into close range more often and for longer, means also getting shot more often and for longer.
(You also came to this by thinking about the nightmare of playing 8 hemlocks without tactical cognitator along your "real ships" whithout ramming or shooting yourself... :mrgreen:


I'm no lover of the alpha strike that pretty much destroys my biggest ships if I don't slap a crap ton of shield and armor upgrades on them and brace for impact but ! This guy does have a point.

Reducing the alpha of a combined pulsar strike by spreading the dps out over time and reducing the cooldown is a fine idea. Less spike with more regular damage delivery would work better with an rng system like gothics. More chance to mitigate damage with the added bonus of getting some valuable thinking time to counter the attack with.

I still think it would be a good idea to remove the range upgrade for the light cruiser and voidstalker pulsars; 9k for a light cruiser and 12k for a battleship seems a tad extreme when used with say vauls. But I don't see an issue with firing at blips it is what the rest of us do after all. Chaos have become very good at lancing blips.
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