Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

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MaxRim
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Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby MaxRim » 01 May 2016, 14:37

If you are against this then you havent played against eldar in high tier battles.

Losing a battleship right after seeing your enemy in literally 5 seconds is BROKEN! especially when that enemy simple does a 180 and goes invisible LOL! Seriously, how can you let a battleship get what is in practice ONE HIT! FIX!

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby MadDemiurg » 01 May 2016, 14:41

l2p please

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Ivanna
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Ivanna » 01 May 2016, 15:20

I think that unless Eldar is completely reworked to be much more like the other factions, there will always be people complaining about them, regardless whether they are overpowered or underpowered in high level play.

Personally, I do not want them to be reworked. I think the game is much more interesting with the diverse playstyles offered by factions like Eldar, even though it is a challenge to balance.

People who know how to play against Eldar make it very, very difficult for the Eldar to attack without suffering crippling damage in the process. It is very hard to win against that type of player as Eldar.

Whereas, people who don't know how to play against Eldar are easy pickings. They tend to mindlessly charge at you with one ship at a time in some vain hope of killing you, even though they haven't brought any tool with them to do so and are effectively sacrificing one ship at a time for no good reason. There's no strategy or forethought there whatsoever. They're playing casually rather than competitively.

I do think that the introduction of ranked and an ELO system will solve a lot of the issues and complaints that are going on right now. As far as Eldar balance goes, the only glaring offender is the Voidstalker and its 12km range, setting broadside tactics to counter Taunt.

The whole "Leave every game until devs realise" mindset is kind of sad, honestly. Most people are not game designers, or otherwise experts on game balance (as much as they like to think they are) and even those that are, tend to be wrong a lot of the time. I have seen it hundreds of times in games where a tactic will emerge whose counter is not immediately obvious, and the forums explode with calls for nerfs, even when the tactic itself is little more than a cheap trick that is both highly predictable, and which has effective options for counterplay. Though they might be extremely effective in lower level games, they may wind up being downright terrible at a competitive level.

If Tindalos want any chance of a competitive scene in BGF:A (and I firmly believe it has the potential for one), they have to be really damn careful about their balance decisions. If they nerf something just because it isn't 'fun' to play against, or newer players can't figure out how to beat it, it might appease many players there and then but is likely to hurt the depth of the game and evolutions of metas in the long run. I am absolutely NOT suggesting that everything is perfect and the game is in a balanced state at the moment, but it's far too soon for these sorts of knee-jerk reactions.
Last edited by Ivanna on 01 May 2016, 15:44, edited 4 times in total.

Deidryt
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Deidryt » 01 May 2016, 15:30

Agreed with Ivanna.

The other item I'd like to see implemented with Eldar is the need to identify targets before being able to deal full damage to them. Weapons such as torpedoes, bombs, and nova cannons have onboard mechanisms or are AOE -- however, pulsars and other direct attack weapons should see what they're targeting in order to deal their maximum damage potential.

This would also force Eldar players to play by the same detection mechanics other races need to, which is one of the major pieces new players have difficulty dealing with.

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Ivanna
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Ivanna » 01 May 2016, 15:51

Deidryt wrote:This would also force Eldar players to play by the same detection mechanics other races need to, which is one of the major pieces new players have difficulty dealing with.


Good point, actually. It would force use of scouts or other detection tool which could be quite interesting.

One thing that strikes me as a bit weird at the minute is that even if a ship is totally invisible in a gas cloud, you can pretty much get an exact fix on it if a torpedo gets anywhere near it, or if it launches any fighters. You can then aim your pulsars at it and fire, and even get hit registration.

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Deuzerre
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Deuzerre » 01 May 2016, 16:16

You know the devs said the next balance focus is the eldar?
"Common sense isn't as common as the name would imply"

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Turest
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Turest » 01 May 2016, 16:49

What could be interesting, and I've been thinking about this for a little while is the use of the "sunward edge" mechanic from TT. so instead of Eldar having a boost as they do now. which makes them fairly difficult to catch without serious pre-planning and ships designed for the purpose. it would mean that badly positioned Eldar fleets would be slower than normal.

"its speed depends on its facing towards the sunward table edge, All Eldar ships have 3 speeds (for example 10/20/30). The first is used if the sunward table edge is in the Eldar ships frontal arc; the second id used if in the rear arc and the third is used if the sunward edge is in the left or right arc"

Taken directly from the rule book. whilst a little more complex than current Eldar movement it would mean that a) poor decisions from the Eldar player let them get caught and b) give them more flavour akin to their origins.

Just my thoughts. Ill expand if people think it could work.

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Spector
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Spector » 01 May 2016, 17:23

Fixing Eldar in my opinion is VERY simple.

1. Max range on Pulsars 6-7.5k, depending on balancing.
2. Pulsars don't do dmg if the target is not identified.

BAM. Done. Finished. Let's play properly again.
My YouTube channel with BFG:A videos: https://www.youtube.com/user/perafilozof

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ScinFaxi
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby ScinFaxi » 01 May 2016, 19:49

Actually you're probably right Iva, if the elo system was implemented you'd actually see where things stand. Also you're entirely right, knowing how to play and play against eldar makes them very easy to hurt and win off of.

This kid just isn't good ;s

I've heard the argument before that new players or sub par players can't handle certain factions or tactics. I don't really see that it's the games problem. Each race has the ability to beat other races but as I stated in a post before. To beat eldar properly you need to have a fleet outfitted at least with some anti eldary involved, which gimps your fleet vs other races.

If we had more slots for ships, we could craft and tailor compositions for particular armies. But I do feel that's also taking away something from the game. ;s

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Ivanna
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Ivanna » 01 May 2016, 20:11

ScinFaxi wrote:If we had more slots for ships, we could craft and tailor compositions for particular armies. But I do feel that's also taking away something from the game. ;s


Well, right now you have very limited ship slots available to you so you can't really make a pure Anti-X race fleet without sacrificing something against other fleets. That is interesting in that it forces you to prioritise somewhat and make compromises, but overall I think it's far too restrictive and the drawbacks far outweigh any benefits. That's just IMO, though.

I would personally love it if you could have multiple fleets, allowing you to specialise each one and choose which one to take against particular enemies, but I don't know if that would make countering a race far too trivial. As Eldar, if every single Ork I faced had Taunt and Trakktors on all of their ships, or every Chaos had Slaneesh or every IN were shield tanking, nova spamming machines with 12.5k detection range in every battle, it would make current Pulsar tactics far less effective, to the point of being suicidal against a good enough player. Not saying it would be the doom of Eldar or anything since there are ways they could adapt, but it would definitely raise the overall knowledge cap of the game.


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