Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

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ScinFaxi
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby ScinFaxi » 01 May 2016, 21:32

Ivanna wrote:
ScinFaxi wrote:If we had more slots for ships, we could craft and tailor compositions for particular armies. But I do feel that's also taking away something from the game. ;s


Well, right now you have very limited ship slots available to you so you can't really make a pure Anti-X race fleet without sacrificing something against other fleets. That is interesting in that it forces you to prioritise somewhat and make compromises, but overall I think it's far too restrictive and the drawbacks far outweigh any benefits. That's just IMO, though.

I would personally love it if you could have multiple fleets, allowing you to specialise each one and choose which one to take against particular enemies, but I don't know if that would make countering a race far too trivial. As Eldar, if every single Ork I faced had Taunt and Trakktors on all of their ships, or every Chaos had Slaneesh or every IN were shield tanking, nova spamming machines with 12.5k detection range in every battle, it would make current Pulsar tactics far less effective, to the point of being suicidal against a good enough player. Not saying it would be the doom of Eldar or anything since there are ways they could adapt, but it would definitely raise the overall knowledge cap of the game.


Well bam there you have it, I didn't even need to list the best compositions to removing eldar from the game.

To clarify for any who don't know it. But a 700 point battle, eldar vs chaos with chaos taking less big ships and more smaller ships with slanesh they can chain her whisper onto the 3 ships you'll likely face, vs ec x2 and you have yourself an easy which as they are silenced which also effects all their auto casts :D

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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby MaxRim » 02 May 2016, 02:23

ScinFaxi wrote:Actually you're probably right Iva, if the elo system was implemented you'd actually see where things stand. Also you're entirely right, knowing how to play and play against eldar makes them very easy to hurt and win off of.

This kid just isn't good ;s

I've heard the argument before that new players or sub par players can't handle certain factions or tactics. I don't really see that it's the games problem. Each race has the ability to beat other races but as I stated in a post before. To beat

eldar properly you need to have a fleet outfitted at least with some anti eldary involved, which gimps your fleet vs other races.

If we had more slots for ships, we could craft and tailor compositions for particular armies. But I do feel that's also taking away something from the game. ;s
MadDemiurg wrote:l2p please



Wow eldar fan boy only posts in eldar forums confirmed fanboy, and if you think I can't play you are very wrong, what makes you think I am a "new" player? Wow you will come back to realisation when you actually get somewhere in the game and start playing against proper players and get 1 hit KO'd by eldar from a range you can't even DETECT, gtfo. There is no counter play, the slaneeshhave skill needs to TARGET a ship which you can't do if you haven't DETECTED them, you can't use stasis bombs because they will shoot you and do a 180 before they go off and not to mention they will do this on the edge of your stasis bomb range, the first race I played was eldar, I won 90% of my games and I lost mostly to other eldar, I also did stupid shit like running around the map undetected as Altaic and extra running silent mod until I won. Don't reply if you know nothing about the game. As for everyone else's input, thanks. Reducing range on pulsars, making them only shoot able when ships are targeted and lastly I think augar probes need more speed and should give vision of a ship for longer then how long they are in the circle. Augar probes just feel useless at the moment

P.S don't go around saying eldar is fine l2play ur only hurting the game, the next balance is centred around eldar and people need to help with ideas rather then say l2play, l2helpbalancr

Deidryt
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Deidryt » 02 May 2016, 02:38

Just want to clarify first -- I think that Pulsars should maintain their current usage method and be brought to balance with:
1) 7.5/9k max range (with upgrade)
2) less damage / accuracy against undetected targets.

I am not saying that pulsars should only be able to hit targets that are spotted, as players are welcome to fire them at less than max efficiency against unknown targets. The number that I was throwing around is that pulsars should have a 50% chance to miss / do no damage against targets that are not detected.

Regarding the detection meta, I actually find the stationary probes to be more useful. Also, doubling up on them is very effective.
Of course, my personal favorite counter to Eldar is to have ships with monster detection ranges.

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angelshard
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby angelshard » 02 May 2016, 05:38

Use beacon. Eldar have no shields so you can attach it directly to hull from the get go.

Mwj 5000, or 7500 if you have increased augur, towards the blip, detect him and smack a beacon on him. You now have two minutes of visibility to kill him.
Also, the instant you see a pulse hit Brace. It will give yo 45% armour against lances almost halving their damage. Have invulnerable shield and transfer on auto cast and the ai will use them quite well vs eldar.
Bring an escort or two to scout for you.

Eldar needs a rework, the devs have already said they're working on it, but they are far from over powered.

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby MadDemiurg » 02 May 2016, 08:26

MaxRim wrote:
ScinFaxi wrote:Actually you're probably right Iva, if the elo system was implemented you'd actually see where things stand. Also you're entirely right, knowing how to play and play against eldar makes them very easy to hurt and win off of.

This kid just isn't good ;s

I've heard the argument before that new players or sub par players can't handle certain factions or tactics. I don't really see that it's the games problem. Each race has the ability to beat other races but as I stated in a post before. To beat

eldar properly you need to have a fleet outfitted at least with some anti eldary involved, which gimps your fleet vs other races.

If we had more slots for ships, we could craft and tailor compositions for particular armies. But I do feel that's also taking away something from the game. ;s
MadDemiurg wrote:l2p please



Wow eldar fan boy only posts in eldar forums confirmed fanboy, and if you think I can't play you are very wrong, what makes you think I am a "new" player? Wow you will come back to realisation when you actually get somewhere in the game and start playing against proper players and get 1 hit KO'd by eldar from a range you can't even DETECT, gtfo. There is no counter play, the slaneeshhave skill needs to TARGET a ship which you can't do if you haven't DETECTED them, you can't use stasis bombs because they will shoot you and do a 180 before they go off and not to mention they will do this on the edge of your stasis bomb range, the first race I played was eldar, I won 90% of my games and I lost mostly to other eldar, I also did stupid shit like running around the map undetected as Altaic and extra running silent mod until I won. Don't reply if you know nothing about the game. As for everyone else's input, thanks. Reducing range on pulsars, making them only shoot able when ships are targeted and lastly I think augar probes need more speed and should give vision of a ship for longer then how long they are in the circle. Augar probes just feel useless at the moment

P.S don't go around saying eldar is fine l2play ur only hurting the game, the next balance is centred around eldar and people need to help with ideas rather then say l2play, l2helpbalancr


Well you make a post saying nothing constructive apart from OMG NERF ELDAR!!!!1111, I say l2p. I play all 4 factions with very high win rate. I also post in other forums, including topics on how to play vs Eldar, lol. The majority of players have no clue how to play vs Eldar atm. The majority of Eldar don't have a clue what to do when facing a fleet that can actually fight them. If you can't come up with a strategy that works you're not as good as you think you are.

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Badgutz
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Badgutz » 02 May 2016, 09:39

Yeh da orks eat voidstalkers for breakfast lunch and Dina Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa
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Tanall
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Tanall » 02 May 2016, 15:26

For everyone suggesting a damage/range nerf for pulsars, you do realize that will switch the meta to carrier-kiting and escort spam, right?

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Spector
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Spector » 02 May 2016, 15:31

Tanall wrote:For everyone suggesting a damage/range nerf for pulsars, you do realize that will switch the meta to carrier-kiting and escort spam, right?

1. Depends on how they fix pulsars.
2. It will be far less problematic with a 60 second CD and 3 times less dmg with a chance to intercept with turrets and fighters+going silent running or hiding in gas clouds.
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Tanall
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby Tanall » 02 May 2016, 15:37

Spector wrote:
Tanall wrote:For everyone suggesting a damage/range nerf for pulsars, you do realize that will switch the meta to carrier-kiting and escort spam, right?

1. Depends on how they fix pulsars.
2. It will be far less problematic with a 60 second CD and 3 times less dmg with a chance to intercept with turrets and fighters+going silent running or hiding in gas clouds.


Perhaps, but look at it from this perspective: An Eldar that does not want to engage is frustrating, because few can catch him. But with pulsars, they are at least required to make runs on their targets. Carriers dont need to make runs on their targets. So, yes, not as dangerous, but one cant sit there and say that they would enjoy the idea of fighting a kiting Eldar.

We'd basically trade the frustration of glass cannons that epitomize both 'glass' and 'cannon', for the frustration of an enemy staying outside of arm's reach subjecting us to a death of mosquito bites.

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angelshard
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Re: Leave every game eldar is in until devs realise.

Postby angelshard » 02 May 2016, 15:47

Agreed, it would be a sad thing if eldar were to play a kite and never come closer than 10.000 game.

There's already plenty of complaints about eldar running for 20 min to get a cheap win, imagine If that was their standard build.

And again I'd argue that eldar right now aren't OP, they need tweaks and a rebalancing but not really nerfs.

My biggest issue is missions, apart from cruiser clash, eldar either have an easy time, planetary bombardment, or they are screwed, breakthrough.


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