Eldar Mechanics?

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Flyingrhinoman
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Flyingrhinoman » 27 February 2016, 07:32

As a TT player the elder against imperial is more a bout how your fleet is positioned. Fighting times them means relying on your BS to deal with the fleet because there is very little that comes close to there mix of durability and range of fire power that is not over there point cost. In order for the elder player to win he has to pick ships of one at a time as in brawls they are outclassed by everyone (excluding Tau). If your ships are arranged in such away that your BS can retaliate to any advance then, it forces the elder to over commit. This is the opposite of chaos as the imperial is focused on the BS versus cruiser superiority.
For those who challenge the might of the Imperium I laugh at you as you desperately try to damage the armored prow while I watch you scrabble to doge my glorious swarm of torpedoes. Eldar please run away

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HERO
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby HERO » 27 February 2016, 08:34

I've played quite a bit of TT and RTS games in my day.

Eldar on TT are as follows:
>They are extremely maneuverable and fast with the right sun facing.
>Their ships are rather specialized and cost more than other races.
>Their ships are more fragile and can take critical much easier.
>They have more accurate torpedoes and gunnery.
>Their torpedoes and aircraft are much harder to hit while being superior.
>Their Pulsars are essentially rapid fire lances.
>Their ships are protected by Holo-fields; which makes them very difficult to hit, but no turrets.
>Their ships' weapons are generally shorter ranged and prow-focused.

In short, they use speed and maneuverability to get in close, hit extremely hard, while slipping away from return fire due to their Holo-fields. If they do suffer hits (generally due to AoEs, celestial phenoms, and/or saturation of fire), they will take greater amounts of damage due to the lower hull values on their ships and being more susceptible to crits.

How they will translate on the PC remains to be seen, but I think all of the above can be translated quite easily as long as the damage formula incorporates hit chance. I believe there is hit chance because looking at some of the gameplay videos and tutorials, it's pretty clear that ships can actually miss shots. This means that roughly 83% of conventional weapons will miss the Eldar, but once they do hit, they will hit for significant damage and increased hit chance.

With his playstyle in mind, it's going to be quite clear that Eldar are going to be extremely micro-intensive compared to the other factions. It's just how their ships are designed to play.

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CALiGeR190
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby CALiGeR190 » 27 February 2016, 11:06

HERO wrote:I've played quite a bit of TT and RTS games in my day.

Eldar on TT are as follows:
>They are extremely maneuverable and fast with the right sun facing.
>Their ships are rather specialized and cost more than other races.
>Their ships are more fragile and can take critical much easier.
>They have more accurate torpedoes and gunnery.
>Their torpedoes and aircraft are much harder to hit while being superior.
>Their Pulsars are essentially rapid fire lances.
>Their ships are protected by Holo-fields; which makes them very difficult to hit, but no turrets.
>Their ships' weapons are generally shorter ranged and prow-focused.

In short, they use speed and maneuverability to get in close, hit extremely hard, while slipping away from return fire due to their Holo-fields. If they do suffer hits (generally due to AoEs, celestial phenoms, and/or saturation of fire), they will take greater amounts of damage due to the lower hull values on their ships and being more susceptible to crits.

How they will translate on the PC remains to be seen, but I think all of the above can be translated quite easily as long as the damage formula incorporates hit chance. I believe there is hit chance because looking at some of the gameplay videos and tutorials, it's pretty clear that ships can actually miss shots. This means that roughly 83% of conventional weapons will miss the Eldar, but once they do hit, they will hit for significant damage and increased hit chance.

With his playstyle in mind, it's going to be quite clear that Eldar are going to be extremely micro-intensive compared to the other factions. It's just how their ships are designed to play.

This guy has more or less nailed it.
I won't give any exact details, and even if I could it's subject to change, but what he's saying is very close to correct.
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Brutoni
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Brutoni » 27 February 2016, 11:42

How does the lack of persistent Escorts affect the Eldar. In terms of available classes of ships they always had the most variety in their escorts! Furthermore as a race they very much depended on Escorts given that certain ones (Helbore for example) were particularly potent.

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Drakausa » 27 February 2016, 16:30

More and more I see that the selection (composition) of a single fleet has increased importance in campaign missions or skirmish 'one off' matches. This, once again, relies on pre-battle intelligence as to opponent. I have to assume that any Admiral who begins either a campaign scenario or single skirmish match will be told that they are responding to 'x' type of attackers (racial type of ships). This would, perhaps, allow the Admiral to select from his existing ships, those which might best respond to the opponent (Chaos, Ork or Eldar). This, in turn, depends on how many ships we will be allowed to accumulate in our 'holding' fleet so that we even have a group for selection. If I can only send up to, say, 10 ships (plus escorts?) then I really hope we can build up a larger group as an Admiralty fleet.

In World of Warships, another single match 2D surface warfare game, I have 23 ships in my 'fleet' but only able to use one at a time since it is a full team vs team pvp game with random groups of single ships. BFG is an RTS game but I also think we will be able to have many more than some basic limit (10?) available to use in scenarios or matches in an Admiralty fleet. Facing Eldar will, as shown in above posts, require more ship type selectivity and this seems to extend to all opposition races.

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Drang
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Drang » 27 February 2016, 16:38

Fluff wise, Imps deal with Eldar by attacking them with Invincible-class Fast Battleships
"Damn the torpedoes - forward!"

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CALiGeR190
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby CALiGeR190 » 27 February 2016, 18:01

Drang wrote:Fluff wise, Imps deal with Eldar by attacking them with Invincible-class Fast Battleships

If they have any.
Normally only find them in service with Battlefleet Tempestus: most admirals don't like their 18 wheeler, heavy gun armed, sports cars made out of match sticks and cardboard.
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Demoulius
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Demoulius » 27 February 2016, 20:37

I think making well wounded fleets is the best way to go tbh. Sure some ships will have to take a little break when theyre faced with an opponent they cant reliably fight but if you can just tool your fleet to every enemy it would take an inmense chunk out of the fun of the game imho. Having to think ahead what ships you would want in your fleet, what tactics you want to use, how you are going to deal with your opponent; and then adapt.... Thats where the beauty in RTS games is in my opinion :lol:

Some intel would be appropiate but not so much that you could take a hard counter to your enemy, as then the game would just be us seal clubbing the opposition :shock:

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HERO
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby HERO » 27 February 2016, 20:50

Also, Eldar have always been very Escort heavy. Eldar Escorts are among the most deadly out there due to their speed, maneuverability, and Pulsar Lances. If I was a betting man, I would say that the majority of Eldar fleets you will face in multiplayer will be made up with Escorts, Cruisers and maybe a Void Stalker BB. The Void Stalker is good, but for the points, it's not as good compared to some of the other ships out there. The biggest boon that they have is that they have the longest range Pulsars compared to other Eldar ships but at a sacrifice of less gunnery. Most of the time, Eldar fleets will have a 4:2:1 ratio of Escort:Cruiser:BBs if you're looking to play competitive.

I'll look for you guys on the battlefield :)

One last thing, I hope there's no random sun facing in this game. In my opinion, this would make the game less competitive for Eldar especially.

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Demoulius » 27 February 2016, 20:54

Dont know about your games, but the attrition rates of the escort vessels in my gaming group were atrotiously high. Even if you tried to keep them out of harms way and used braces for impact rolls to avoid damage, their armor and health were so low compared to cruisers that they often got taken apart first.

Specially the gunboats like swords and Gladius frigates who had excellent firepower, the torpedo destroyers who...well...fired torpedo's up peoples rear ends or the lance boats if people took them who had a decent combined firepower easily rivalling a cruiser.

It may also have had something to do that I was a dirty space marine player and I used my thunderhawks to take off the pesky little ships :mrgreen:


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