Eldar Mechanics?

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Asperon Thorn
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Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Asperon Thorn » 29 January 2016, 17:59

As a TT Eldar Player I am really curious on how the Eldar Mechanics will work in an RTS. Especially now that we got our first glimpse of one in the Imperium trailer. (1:06 for those that missed it, although Eldar were fairly immune to torps despite what the trailer was saying.)

On TT your Move Fire Move allowed you to zip in with your relatively short range but very powerful weapons. . . unleash hell then scoot out before the other side could get in a shot. It may seem OP but the Eldar ships were made of paper (although they were an answer to those lance heavy fleets.)

In an RTS, however. . being that it is real time, how is that going to play out? On TT if you couldn't get out of range (or behind terrain) in your second move, you'd get wrecked. In extreme cases you could lose an entirely unscathed fleet in a single turn if your botched your movement.

Has anyone seen or heard? Are they in the alpha?

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Drakausa » 30 January 2016, 20:25

From what I have been reading about in the two books I have bought (novels) the Eldar ships use Mimic Tech to show their ships as being some other type from warship to trading vessel. Also have Holo Tech to let opposition sensors 'see' their ship at some distance from their actual location so weapons fire is directed at the hologram. I would think that range for detecting the real type and location of an Eldar warship would be the 'stealth' factor and the 'upgrades' to Imperial, Chaos and Ork vessels would be able to increase this detection range. As a balance, it would seem that Eldar ships would be difficult to 'hit' and damage would be a bit higher with ' holo armor' being a value degrading the 'to hit' ability rather than degrading damage levels.

Since the game descriptions in narrative indicate the vital importance of maneuver then the speed and maneuverability of the Eldar ships may assume a more important role than other factors. The Orks are Ring Fighters with the Cestus and the Eldar are 'Dancers with the Katana'. The Imperials and Chaos are Swordsmen; the Imperials using the Cutlass and Shield while Chaos uses the Rapier and Bow. LOL!!!

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CALiGeR190
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby CALiGeR190 » 30 January 2016, 20:55

Eldar are the hidden and hard to kill menace.
They have terrifyingly powerful torpedoes and Lances on their ships, which melt through shields and armour like they aren't there. They are also easily the most mobile, have light cruisers that behave more like strike craft as they fly through space. Their own strike craft are also unmatched by their competitors own. one squadron able to match swarms of Imperial fighters. They also make use of Holo fields and the likes to disrupt and mislead in coming fire.
Their entire doctrine revolves around not being hit, and killing the enemy quickly to avoid drawn out conflict (when the Eldar actually do commit to a fleet engagement anyway).

However they have no established Macro-class weaponry (so rate of fire/DPM is likly to be low, and limited close-in defences), their ships' weaponry is primarily forward mounted (in the nose and/or under slung), so they need to make use of their mobility to get the weapons on target. Their ships are also easy to immobilise, as they use fragile solar sails to propel their ships, and the ships hull itself lack any armour at all.

So overall, extremely dangerous opponents... until you get close (if you get close), then its all over VERY quickly.
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Asperon Thorn
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Asperon Thorn » 31 January 2016, 22:11

@Drakausa

The TT mechanics already took that into account. Lances, torps, and assault craft would just . . miss (1/6 chance to hit as opposed to the much better chances versus other ships). Regular guns had penalties when shooting at Eldar. The only way you could hit an Eldar ship was just put a tremendous weight of fire in their direction and hope for a lucky hit. . .Of course with the second movement phase that Eldar got they would position themselves to minimize the amount of fire that you COULD put in their direction. Against a less skilled opponent it was easy to just nibble the flanks away until they no longer had any ships.

But, You didn't need to hit them very often. Their armor was paper thin, their ships had lower HP's than other ships, and they had a very unforgiving critical hit table. A single hit, against a ship of man would simply get soaked up by the voidshields. A single hit vs an Eldar could cripple the ship enough that it was either effectively destroyed or if it was lucky it could limp off the edge of the table and escape.

Which is why I am so curious on how the mechanics will play out. . . Certainly stealth, mimic drives etc will play a part. But if they are absorbing fire in real time. . before they can re-position. They are going to be in serious trouble.

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Flyingrhinoman » 03 February 2016, 00:43

having only played TT, I would assume the elder ships would either have to have some speed boost that means tracking would be difficult or that they could out run ordinance if they were oriented closer to the sun and such. the other is that they don't get detected until they shoot to compensate for them not having the shields. or just give better shields just to try and make it like the game because it would difficult to make holofeilds work if it was based on RGN because most of the game seemed to be altered to be much more reliable. or an ability that lasts long enough for them to do their strafing run and then run around until the ability is up again or make them have weaker shields past the ability running out.
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Alexi_Menser » 03 February 2016, 10:22

Okay so I'm jumping around a lot of topics putting responses in so I'll keep this brief for now and come back to it later.

Likely what you will find in game is the Eldar will use a combination of incredibly high speed and agility to move out of enemy weapon arcs and technologies/abilities that will disrupt enemy weapon systems, whether it be their accuracy, rate of fire or perhaps even outright disable their weapons briefly. Realistically this combination would allow the Eldar to close the range quickly and unleash their weapons payload, then turn and run, activating these various disruption abilities to quickly flee the scene and return to the fog of war where they can prepare for another attack run.

It's a basic idea, no clue how accurate it would be to the actual mechanics but I think this would work fairly well. Especially for the torpedo heavy ships.
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Drakausa
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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Drakausa » 03 February 2016, 12:20

It would seem that being undetectable till within weapons range, disabling the opponents weapons, firing and then moving back out of range is a bit (well - a lot) unbalanced. Such a tactical advantage MIGHT be opposed by a tactical maneuver like spreading out and varying the spacing (instead of 'bunched group(s) - so that moving away from the ship an Eldar attacked, would not (maybe) get them out of range of other ships. In other words the tighter the formation would be to an Eldar ships advantage. Most likely balance is that the weapons disruption or disable would be weapons type specific. In other words all weapons on the ship being attacked would not be disabled. only a single weapons type such as massive cannons or more likely, the longer range lances. I do feel that balancing 'stealth' based ships will be very difficult as I have seen in other designs that players on both sides seem more frustrated than pleased. A case of a compromise that satisfies nobody.

Using such a 'weapons specific' design balance would make Eldar ships operating together in pairs another viable tactic for the Eldar player. I am a retired and former game designer but, boy, would I love to work on a design like this. I am a US Navy vet and working on a game with ships, in space, for a game - just wow! I envy the devs.

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Sev » 09 February 2016, 11:13

I think the Eldar fleets will be very difficult to play, the reasons for it are:
A lot of their armament is fixed forward.
They have to come close.
They hate Weapon Batteries while they laugh about lance weapons.
They have weaknesses against boarding and ramming.
(In TT, dunno about ingame) they have constantly plan their moves according to the sun.

All this together in real time is difficult to manage without making mistakes, and loosing ships hurt them more than other nations due the high point costs of the ships. Im excited to see how this will turn out in-game.

In TT they where/are a force you have to be aware of, as countermeasures i found it (as a Chaos player mainly) the best to:
Go at them aggressive, if they dont want to get boarded they have to break of, so no shooting at you due the prow weapons.
Get tons of Weapon Batteries like with the Carnage Class Cruisers, the Nemesis of Eldar Ships.
Bombers and Boarding Ships help also a lot if massed against single targets and they cant out run them in the long run.

The Imperial Fleet struggeld imho more against the Eldar due being slower and having less range, but wiseley used torpedo salvos can keep the eldar at distance so you can use the few long range ships the Imperial Fleet has and again Bombers and Boarding Ships.

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Asperon Thorn » 26 February 2016, 22:07

*Shameless Bump*

For those of you that were part of the CTT. . did anyone play Eldar?

How did the play and feel?
What was your experience with them?
How do their mechanics work?
And what ships were available? (Most importantly was the Void Stalker available?

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Re: Eldar Mechanics?

Postby Demoulius » 27 February 2016, 01:54

I think chaos would have less issues dealing with Eldar then imperials would... Some of their ships have massive ranges on their guns and while relying on lances would be...useless against Eldar (if its anything like TT) they would absolutely murder them at range :shock:

Orks would love fighting against Eldar if they would be able to get close with their guns. Not to mention ramming and/or boarding ;)

Imperials though, I think you need a pretty specialised fleet to deal well with Eldar... If lances are gonna be pretty much useless against Eldar like it is on the TT then bringing a balanced and well rounded fleet would actually work against you :oops:


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