Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

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Bludfist
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Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Bludfist » 09 June 2016, 14:15

With the release of the new balance patch, i thought it be good that we get together to discuss the changes to to the game and how it affects us ork players and talk about how we can change up our fleet

Now here is the main stuff affecting us:


Sagranda wrote:For a better overview of the gameplay changes



Orks

  • New Ork Trait “Looted Ship”: Fire Durations on this ship are doubled and Hull Breaches causes double damage.

  • New Ork Upgrade replacing “Heavy Gunz: Under 3.000 units, Gunz and Kannonz reduce armour to 25%” by “More Dakka: While on Lock On, all Gunz fire the maximum number of shots.”
  • New Ork Upgrade replacing “Big Mek: Raises the Troop Value by 10 against Cancel Warp attempts” by “Bonkers Big Mek: Upon Dying, the ship always triggers a Plasma Engine Surge, Exploding violently. The damages dealt this way are doubled.”
  • The Ork Trait “Squigless” has been removed. The players can now execute Ork Captains without the Chained Squig upgrade. The Chained Squig crew member is still locked and needs the affiliated upgrade to be unlocked.
  • The Ork Upgrade “Mork-blessed Scannurz” has been removed, replaced by the “Chained Squig” upgrade.
  • The vacant space in Hull left by “Chained Squig” has been filled with “Cleva Mekboy: The ship can still use Boarding action and Emergency Repairs once heavily damaged, but the Emergency Repairs cannot heal the ship for more than 15% of its max hull points.”
  • The “Shokk-Attack Mega Kannon” Ork Favour skill now deals 2 assault actions instead of 1.
  • Orks Kannonz are no longer affected by upgrades.
  • New Ork upgrade replacing “Kustom Generator: While on Lock on Special Order, Zzaps have a +300% chance to deal critical hits.” by “Disrupta Zzap: Each hit on the enemy ship’s hull by the ship's Zzap slows the target by 50% for 2 seconds. Stackable.”
  • The Ork upgrade “Sheeld-breaker Shot” has been reworked. Rather than its old effect, it now does: “Each Zzap shot has a 50% chance to bypass shields and holofields.”
  • New Ork upgrade replacing “Kunning Plans: Special Manoeuvres do not reveal the ship.” by “Turbo Boosta: Gives +25 speed to the ship, but each Big Red Button Special Manoeuvre has a 20% chance to cause a temporary Engine critical damage.”


Skills and Favours

  • All additional Troop Values granted through a Favour upgrade are divided by 2 (Examples: Nurgle now only gives +10 and Space Marines now only give +5)
  • The “Disruption Bomb” Technical skill’s cooldown is now 180 seconds.
  • The “Stasis Bomb” Technical skill’s cooldown is now 300 seconds.
  • The “Plasma Bomb” Technical skill’s cooldown is now 180 seconds. Additionally, they only deal 50 damages (instead of 100) if the enemy ship distant of more than 50% of the area of effect compared to the epicenter of the explosion.
  • The “Micro Warp Jump” (and faction equivalent) technical skill has been reworked: It now starts in Cooldown, and shares its Cooldown with the Warp Jump. If the player uses one of those two skills, both will be set on the used skill’s cooldown.
  • The interdiction zone for the Micro Warp Jump has been reduced from 3.000 to 2.000.
  • New Technical Skill replacing “Taunt: Force the targeted ship to attack the ship, respecting its set behaviour.” by “Rally: Cancel the targeted ship’s insubordination without triggering the Mutiny effect.”
  • Unfitting a Skill, an Upgrade or a Favour now gives back 50% of its initial price.
  • The Servitors (and faction equivalent) now affect all skills excepted the Warp Jump (and faction equivalent).


General

  • Escort ships can no longer use the “Emergency Repairs” skill while heavily damaged.
  • Accuracy calculations modified: Now all bonuses/penalties are a raw improvement/decrease of the Accuracy score excepted for the Eldar Holofield that stays a percentage reduction.
  • The Radius of the Plasma Engine Surge has been improved from 2.500 to 3.000


So we lot our ap rounds which mess with our brawlin, so that sucks :?

Now that the devs have thrown u a bone, chained squigs in no longer "mandatory" to us to execute i dont feel it necessary any more, espically now that we can slot the rally skill

Zzzaps now i feel are very useful thank to the stacking 50% slow thing, this gives us a chasing mechanism; which im sure sure somewhere Pile_of_gunz is very happy about :P

this also means that we can be not "as reliant" on evil sunz favor

furthermore the maximum shot upgrade means that lotsa gunz will go from 4 shots to a consistent 6 for a maximum of 12 shots from 2 broadsides for the duration which makes it bit more viable

now that troop value favors have been "nerfed" our boarding is more effective and with the now 2 assault actions on shock attack mega kannonz and the whole host of new upgrades i feel that it is a strong favor espically since their are more and more upgrades that share a lot of synergy together like disrupta zzzaps and shield breaka shot

speaking of upgrades i feel that we will need to run the halve fire duration upgrade due to the looted ship trait and the ofc not to mention, for sure the +25 speed upgrade

as fun as it would be to have your ships commit sodoku with the ship explosion upgrade, i feel its not worth it since ork ships have a tendency to clump up

I think the new ork meta build will be MK + 1 zzzap, and DMK + 2 zzzaps for the deathdela, if not meta atleast a strong option

thats my opinions, what are yours on this new patch?
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Sagranda
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Sagranda » 09 June 2016, 15:46

I haven't played since the MWJ patch and these were my first two games on the new patch, so not a great sample size and I misplayed a shit load of stuff.
Coincidence it was against Imperial players and one was crying already :mrgreen:

What is noticeable though is the damage drop off when brawling, since there are no ap rounds anymore.
So you are basically "forced" to actually keep your ships at a "nose-to-nose" distance.

I think having extra Zzap-boats is better than mixing Mega-Kannonz and Zzap-Guns, since you can't press the "hold fire" button when you want your Zzaps to shoot. On the other hand you don't really want your Kannonz to shoot at 3k range either, since you have to go through the 50% check from the "accuracy trait" and at least the 50% from the enemy armor if you want to hit something.

To me this means for me that I have to completely revamp my fleet, since I have a lot of mixed ships (the theory was to deplete the enemy ships shields before arriving and then pound them with the Kannonz, while also to have some ranged weapons against kiters. In practice it worked pretty well, too.)


With the nerf of the Mega Kannonz, the torpedoes got even better.


About Lotsa Gunz:
the upgrade could be worth it if you are able to keep the enemy in close range for the duration of the 3 minutes.
I mean, it would increase the prow gunz from the deathdeala to 1620 damage over the 180s if I am not mistaken (not taking Ork accuracy and armor into account though and only if the tooltip is correct)


We may be able now to execute captains without the chained squigs upgrade, but the low morale still stays and that was the selling point for the upgrade in my eyes. With the upgrade and fully level squigs crew I almost never had to execute my captains and therefor avoided the mutiny debuff
But I have seen more insubordination today than ever in the matches, even though I had the upgrade and the points in the Squigs in the Cage crew. Either I got unlucky or something isn't right.

And tbh, I don't see where I could really fit the Rally ability in, but maybe my focus on disruption, mobility and ship buffs (Whaaag!, invulnerable shields - can't remember the name right now) is a tad too high.


I am also not sure if I like the movement speed upgrade, since it has a 20% chance to cause a temporary critical engine error when using the Red Button sinceI usually use it a lot :D
But I will take that risk , since +25ms is damn nice.


The "Looted Ship" trait is bullshit in my eyes.
More burning damage and double the damage for Hull Breaches?
You take a big junk out of the Orkz damage (unless you are a really lucky person) and at the same time something like this?
Ok, we got a mobility (that comes with a risk) and Zzap buff in return to stick to the enemy, but I still don't see a reason to double those damages.
But maybe they want to promote the Kamikaze approach with Bonkers Big Mek...
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Bludfist
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Bludfist » 09 June 2016, 16:36

but even though topedos are better, you need 2 heavy guns to out dps a MK
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Godspath
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Godspath » 09 June 2016, 19:08

One of other big nerf is no upgrades for kannons. That mean your kannons will never go over 3k range (before you could get them to 6k and they did great even without armour pen).

I could live with all this changes but looted ship is pure BS. Nice that we have more hull (and less shields) but now that extra will be negated by crits. We still suffer from low mobility and low turret accuracy so any melta torps spam will be hard counter to any ork fleet.

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Cryhavok
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Cryhavok » 09 June 2016, 20:18

With the improved orky emergency repairs, I am less concerned about the fire and hull breach criticals. With temporary crits getting repaired there will be more other things to get from the crit tables. As far as melta torpedoes go, I am wondering if emergency repairs will heal all your crit damage or just one.
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Pile_O_Gunz
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 09 June 2016, 20:39

My fleets gunna need alot of rework. I'll have a play tonight might have to introduce some more zaps into it might even be able to catch something other than other orks :P

edit - haha half my ship skill/upgrade slots are empty this will be interesting.

MysticForce
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby MysticForce » 09 June 2016, 21:15

Red Sunz + Zzaps = anybody can be chased down extremely quickly. Kiting would be entirely impossible against 4-5 Red Sunz ships...although we did lose a bit of <3k damage with the lack of AP, so being caught isn't nearly as bad.

This also means a dedicated Imperial brawling fleet can take an Ork fleet fairly easily now. Ugh.

175 speed Dethdeala though... WE GONNA GET ALL DA TEEF

Now I'm glad I had like 3k renown stockpiled. Time to kustomize.

Pile_O_Gunz
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 09 June 2016, 21:20

Ok done. 23k renoun left lol. I haven't given up on the kannonz completely yet wel see how it goes.

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Spartan-089
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Spartan-089 » 09 June 2016, 21:37

Ill post my concerns from the other thread and add a bit more.

My question is how are ork catching Chaos let alone Eldar now without taunt? Eldar may be "slower" now but they are still vastly faster than orks and Chaos can comfortably kite at 12k. This seems like a huge nerf for Orks all around (double fires, no more ap rounds, no more taunt). How are orks supposed to catch kitters now? That unreliable speed upgrade that can break our engines? Zzaps?, pretty sure that wont slow them enough to close the distance.

Red Suns favor seens to be MORE necessary than before than catch speedy ships.

I feel Orks are still relegated to building very specifit builds to even stand a chance. Now instead of BRB+taunt+traktor pull we have to rely on BRB (with chance to cripple your engines)+slowing zzaps+traktor pull but now with less alpha dmg(no ap rounds), less range (no more kannon range, less sensor range), and less survivability (longer fires, more damaging hull breeches).

Seems like we got more nerfs and less tools. I dont look anymore forward to playing Chaos or Eldar.
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Pile_O_Gunz
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Re: Lets us talk about the new Ork balance changes and you

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 09 June 2016, 21:47

Hmm well first impession wasn't great. Beaten by clockworks imp on breakthrough and clash fun games but not exactly close.
I think the kannonz are signicantly weaker without Heavy Gunz which isn't good vs Imps as it was a pretty balanced . Looks like this patch has traded our brawling strength for better catchup. Not sure im keen on that.

Initial thoughts are my fleet (brawling/boarding/broadside focused Goffs) have been weakened. The removall of the AP given by heavy gunz upgrade combined with the need to sacrafice a heavy kannonz for the Zap is too much of a hit to broadside brawling. Zap and Kannonz don't synergize as ones prow the others broadside. If you don't take any Zzap then this patch was a flat nerf to heavy kannonz builds if you do take some as I said the broadside game is weak.

I think Bludfist is right on his meta prediction if any builds going to be stronger its going to be the Sunz prow build but I don't have a fleet of those so cant really comment on it.


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