Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

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Jaw Rippa
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Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Jaw Rippa » 11 May 2016, 10:27

Currently our only viable options are Megacannons, Rams and Traktor beams. This results in close combat monsters that are easily kited, but once in range, shred ships into pieces. Its all fun and that but makes orks predictable and shoehorning players into the same builds.

While I have no problems with some builds beeing better on average then others, why can't we get some decent sidegrades for out tools?

- Ork bombers are useless. Why not increase their damage, or add special effect like temporarily slowing targets?
- Zzap cannon could sap shields and give % of it to ork ship. This way you actually will consider it as a chase tool.
- What if we could improve our chances to hit with broadside by getting upgrade that increases distance and number of shots fired? We could use an upgrade or a custom skill for that.

Thing is - kustom points system is supposed to make us unpredictable and flexible opponent, but all other choices are so unimpressive that it becomes redundant.

Jerjare
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Jerjare » 11 May 2016, 12:27

I agree, that's why I had several ideas:

-Have Ork strike'fighter' craft automatically engage enemy line ships that get within 3000 units of their mother ship. The assault boat escorts also attack whatever ship you targeted. They do the same damage, but you can attack much more frequently because you could combine your fighter screen with a bomber run and swarm them with fighta bommas. This is a unique way to use a carrier- up close ideally but still feasible at longer ranges.

-Zzaps should get upgrades that reflect the fact that your ship only has 1, 3 at the most. Stuff like:
*The Zzap gun will bounce from the target to another target within 6000 units and hit for 50% damage
*You get increased crit chance the closer you are to the target, Lock on improves this further.
*Damage to enemy shields Restores a small amount of the Ork ship's shields with zzap guns.

-With Kustomization, give Hammers 3 Kustom points and Dethdeala 4. You're still paying the point costs for the changes but at least you can make meaningful changes. In addition, have an upgrade that gives +1 kustomization point, which now allows you to kustomize potentially all the hard points on the ship if you really wanted to.

Cripple X
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Cripple X » 11 May 2016, 16:17

Jerjare wrote:-With Kustomization, give Hammers 3 Kustom points and Dethdeala 4. You're still paying the point costs for the changes but at least you can make meaningful changes. In addition, have an upgrade that gives +1 kustomization point, which now allows you to kustomize potentially all the hard points on the ship if you really wanted to.

I think you should be able to customize all the hard points on a ship anyway. After all, you do have to pay for what you take on the ship in it's Cost. Making changes isn't "free."
The Emperor is master of the galaxy, but the Captain is master of his ship.

Pile_O_Gunz
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 12 May 2016, 00:47

Jaw Rippa wrote:Currently our only viable options are Megacannons, Rams and Traktor beams. This results in close combat monsters that are easily kited, but once in range, shred ships into pieces. Its all fun and that but makes orks predictable and shoehorning players into the same builds.

While I have no problems with some builds beeing better on average then others, why can't we get some decent sidegrades for out tools?

- Ork bombers are useless. Why not increase their damage, or add special effect like temporarily slowing targets?
- Zzap cannon could sap shields and give % of it to ork ship. This way you actually will consider it as a chase tool.
- What if we could improve our chances to hit with broadside by getting upgrade that increases distance and number of shots fired? We could use an upgrade or a custom skill for that.

Thing is - kustom points system is supposed to make us unpredictable and flexible opponent, but all other I choices are so unimpressive that it becomes redundant.



It's not the only viable option ! that fleet is not a cc monster it's a chasing fleet. I got a goth fleet with heavy cannons, ramming and boarding that's a cc monster :p

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Bludfist
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Bludfist » 12 May 2016, 01:02

the problem is that people have "gotten smart" and started using more long range stuff vs orks like overlord and tyrants now that the inital wave of IN players whom want to brawl with orks are gone

so your kinda really do need a "chase fleet" or atleast is needs to be a good part of your match fleet

Chaos are kiter
Eldar will be resorting to 9k star cannons and bombers post 3k range nerf
IN use plasma macros and carriers
SM are as fast as IN with Mezoa, give or take

the only thing i rely on for goffs is mirror mosh pit match ups
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
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Pony
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Pony » 12 May 2016, 10:35

Problems are near the same on any fleet.

Assume 2 way of fighting :
Kiting, meaning long range broad weapons (including ordnance) and speed, and brawling, short but powerfull weapons, good prow weapons (chase), boarding and toughness.


An eldar can't brawl, no way. So they kite, again, and pulsar.
Kite 3/brawl 0.

Chaos Nurgle is good at not beeing boarded but chaos ships aren't realy tough, and orks ships got to many hp for DPS AOE.
Khorne is a joke. Ok, daemonic is good. But its not a close range weapon. Khorne need a +1 boarding.
So chaos kite.
Kite 2/brawl 1.

Imp can brawl. They turn realy well (to shoot rear after first shock), can board well (SM) and got real good brawlers (dominators), who wear that nice nova canons for long shots. Choose your poison. They can CC orks with chances of win the fight, with appropriate fleets.
Kite 1/brawl 2.

Orks can brawl. And nothing other, lack of long range weapons, speed and so. So focus on brawling.
Kite 0/ brawl 3


Of course, stuff you take can make you better on one or other aspect. Lets say you got a +1 on what you want.

Jerjare
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Jerjare » 13 May 2016, 02:44

I think the last round of upgrade modifications to Imperial Navy helped them out considerably. They can ram better, their torps can fly faster, they can move faster, their shields can be tougher. All around, good stuff, balanced and fun to play.

I just want Orks to have a comparable kit. Take away upgrades they don't need/don't fit their playstyle, and add stuff that could benefit them.

Pony
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Pony » 13 May 2016, 05:42

I just want Orks to have a comparable kit. Take away upgrades they don't need/don't fit their playstyle, and add stuff that could benefit them.



Yeah, IMP got a realy nice upgrade but :
-loose lance focus 300% crit. That hurt, so far under chaos now.
-ram is not available on nova

That just let you build an Torp based fleet insteed of nova.

Orks have some flexibility too. I try 3 differents fleets since the release :

-classis mega kanon + tractor beam, works well.

-full kanonz with goffs (hard time, but strong vs orks)

-full moonz + torpz anywhere (full broad kanonz), funky (ho, an eldar spotted! 10 fast strike.)

Cripple X
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Cripple X » 13 May 2016, 11:04

I agree, I think having the right set of Ork-specific upgrades could really help with the playstyle problem. The important bit is to make them Orky, but without being a nerf in disguise a la Chained Squigs. Some Ork specific skills beyong WAAAAGH would be great too.
The Emperor is master of the galaxy, but the Captain is master of his ship.

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Kadaeux
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Re: Could we have some variety for orky playstyle?

Postby Kadaeux » 13 May 2016, 13:39

Jaw Rippa wrote:Currently our only viable options are Megacannons, Rams and Traktor beams. This results in close combat monsters that are easily kited, but once in range, shred ships into pieces. Its all fun and that but makes orks predictable and shoehorning players into the same builds.


I disagree in every way possible. I've played viable Karrier only fleets. (All Kustom points are spent on launch bays, all ships are given Bad Moon, Extra Tellyportas, and other upgrades to tastes, strategy is absolute monstering with Teleport assaults, Assault Boats and Boarding Torpedoes with Shokk Attacks as the opportunity presents itself.)

- Ork bombers are useless. Why not increase their damage, or add special effect like temporarily slowing targets?


Ork Bombers have never been their strength. And why should they magically slow targets? If you're going to throw ideas out there. Throw out ones that actually fit the lore.

- Zzap cannon could sap shields and give % of it to ork ship. This way you actually will consider it as a chase tool.


See above, why give a weapon an ability it's never displayed ever in any way shape or form? I also fail to see how that makes it a chase tool, given that if the enemy is running away, thus requiring a 'chase' the Ork ships' shields aren't under any real danger anyway?

- What if we could improve our chances to hit with broadside by getting upgrade that increases distance and number of shots fired? We could use an upgrade or a custom skill for that.


Now THAT is an Orky suggestion. It'd have to be an upgrade though.

Thing is - kustom points system is supposed to make us unpredictable and flexible opponent, but all other choices are so unimpressive that it becomes redundant.


This reflects a singular mindset, not a lack of choice or anything 'unimpressive' about it. Bluntly, I find Megakannons to be the more lacklustre option. Not because they're crappy, but because they're boring (at least spammed).


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