Ork strike craft are too weak!

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Jerjare
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Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Jerjare » 07 May 2016, 02:23

Ork strike craft seem underpowered. This wouldn't be a problem if Ork carriers were priced accordingly, but they aren't.

Fighters seem fine and they're probably the best use of Grot bays most of the time, because Ork ships have less turrets than other races and with weak rear armor, enemy bombers are going to have a field day in spite of having good HP on your ships.

Assault Boats I guess can make the most out of stacking as many assault actions as possible, though this is the least cost-effective way to get it done.

Bombers are the worst deal. In theory, the fact that they attack 3 times is supposed to give you more crit chances, but because the bays are prohibitively expensive and come at the cost of other weapons, you end up giving up way too much damage to be worth it.

Orks are supposed to have a unique benefit of allowing their fighta-bommas to engage enemy bombers/assault boats/torpedoes that get within 1000ish units of them. Realistically, this is extremely situational and only relevant if you happened to launch assault boats/bombers at an enemy carrier that is obviously attacking you.

Imperials seem fairly average when it comes to bays/strike craft, and tend to have plenty of weapons alongside them for most ships.

Chaos has good strike craft obviously, and ships set up to kite fairly well.

Eldar have very strong strike craft, but comparatively fewer (except for fighters, which can be summoned from any line ship via an ability). They're also the best equipped to defend against enemy strike craft, with their speed, turrets, fighters protecting them.

I kind of feel like if Orks are supposed to have the 'weakest' strike craft than the cost should reflect this, and it feels suitably 'Orky' to have orks rely on weight of numbers vs individual effectiveness for their craft. Trying out different designs, a Terror with 2 pairs of grot bays is already 171 points, compared to a much cheaper (and more reliable) Heavy Kannon build.

Hyv
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Hyv » 07 May 2016, 15:33

Honestly, ork launch bays seem costed well if you just look at fighters and assault crafts. Their bombers could realistically do with a damage buff because as it stands they deal such a low amount of damage that youre exclusively fishing for crits. I don't think the craft themselves are the problem though, Orks suffer greatly from giving up weapons to bring ordnance: they cant kite so when they inevitably get stuck in they'll feel the loss of any weapons dearly. I played around a bit with carrier orks but I feel like even if they had eldar bombers I'd still lose to the exact same things.

Jerjare
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Jerjare » 07 May 2016, 16:32

I agree. There are two ends to the problem, one is that they are overall mediocre, and the other is that you give up reliable weapons in order to make it happen.

I feel like there are better ways to play up the Ork strike craft's versatility. One idea I had is that all the Fighta-Bommas are capable and will attempt to attack enemy line ships:

-Bombers attack directly as normal, only deviating to shoot stuff down near their path like they currently do.
-When summoning fighters to protect your ship, these escorting fighters will do bombing runs on enemy line ships that get close enough.
-The Fighta Bommas escorting Assault Boats will perform bombing runs on the targeted enemy ship if any survive.

Now, the damage is still low, but there are many more opportunities to attack and 'fish for crits'. And the Orks would get a unique role for their carrier which is a carrier that's actually good at brawling; summon fighters, close in, then summon bombers/assault boats and have tons of ships constantly attacking the enemy ship.

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Bludfist
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Bludfist » 07 May 2016, 17:29

The idea that ork fighters benifit bombing is really cool
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
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Formosa
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Formosa » 07 May 2016, 17:34

what about ork torpedo bombas, firing short range micro torpedos would be fun :)

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Bludfist
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Bludfist » 07 May 2016, 18:12

Formosa wrote:what about ork torpedo bombas, firing short range micro torpedos would be fun :)

Grot rockets like the ones found on stompas on TT
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
Image

Formosa
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Formosa » 07 May 2016, 18:32

so ive been testing out an ork carrier fleet, and wow, just wow, yes bombers suck all kinds of suck, but the boarding craft are brutal, combined with standard boarding, torps and the boarding ships, Ive managed to strip an enemy cruiser of ALL weapons and subsystems in ONE run, ive even found it to be effective against eldar to a certain extent, the void hunter was simply crippled into complete uselessness in one run, I am quite surprised to be honest, ill keep testing it, but on the whole, I'm quite happy with the results.

Halstead
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Halstead » 07 May 2016, 18:57

Formosa wrote:so ive been testing out an ork carrier fleet, and wow, just wow, yes bombers suck all kinds of suck, but the boarding craft are brutal, combined with standard boarding, torps and the boarding ships, Ive managed to strip an enemy cruiser of ALL weapons and subsystems in ONE run, ive even found it to be effective against eldar to a certain extent, the void hunter was simply crippled into complete uselessness in one run, I am quite surprised to be honest, ill keep testing it, but on the whole, I'm quite happy with the results.
Yeah I found it to be more fun and more effective when you just focus on boarding and assault actions with the Orkz. It fit their nature really well. I mean if you tried to HET away from a ramming Orkz; all he has to do is to turn and board you then!

Formosa
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Formosa » 07 May 2016, 19:03

Halstead wrote:
Formosa wrote:so ive been testing out an ork carrier fleet, and wow, just wow, yes bombers suck all kinds of suck, but the boarding craft are brutal, combined with standard boarding, torps and the boarding ships, Ive managed to strip an enemy cruiser of ALL weapons and subsystems in ONE run, ive even found it to be effective against eldar to a certain extent, the void hunter was simply crippled into complete uselessness in one run, I am quite surprised to be honest, ill keep testing it, but on the whole, I'm quite happy with the results.
Yeah I found it to be more fun and more effective when you just focus on boarding and assault actions with the Orkz. It fit their nature really well. I mean if you tried to HET away from a ramming Orkz; all he has to do is to turn and board you then!


I was really surprised how effectively it strips systems though, I wonder if marines will be that good at it.

Halstead
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Re: Ork strike craft are too weak!

Postby Halstead » 07 May 2016, 19:07

Formosa wrote:
Halstead wrote:
Formosa wrote:so ive been testing out an ork carrier fleet, and wow, just wow, yes bombers suck all kinds of suck, but the boarding craft are brutal, combined with standard boarding, torps and the boarding ships, Ive managed to strip an enemy cruiser of ALL weapons and subsystems in ONE run, ive even found it to be effective against eldar to a certain extent, the void hunter was simply crippled into complete uselessness in one run, I am quite surprised to be honest, ill keep testing it, but on the whole, I'm quite happy with the results.
Yeah I found it to be more fun and more effective when you just focus on boarding and assault actions with the Orkz. It fit their nature really well. I mean if you tried to HET away from a ramming Orkz; all he has to do is to turn and board you then!


I was really surprised how effectively it strips systems though, I wonder if marines will be that good at it.
They're orkz, they don't do marines. They BOARD, MAIM, and LOOTZ. Usually not in that same order. I tried an all "carrier" LC detachment in skirmish, it was rather fun, even against other Orkz AI forces. All that boarding assaults so much fun.


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