[Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

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Szilver
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby Szilver » 28 April 2016, 10:23

Hello There
I agree with Bludfist i play Orks and Blood Axes favor for the Runing silent sometimes comes in handy against ranged fleets
And i think that the 25% chnce to blow up the prow section makes this favor less competitive than the others in long run.
In short if Both sides agrees that this needs to be changed, can we get an answer from DEVS or Testers is this intended or this gona change in future like oter similar things.
PS. Sry for my English.

wtrgt
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby wtrgt » 28 April 2016, 15:01

nova weapons should not explode at all, period - it's a dice roll mechanic that punishes you if you're unlucky... for the rest of the match

having it misfire, so you waste your turn, or 'overheat', so that you have to wait a minute or two before being able to fire it again would be a much better mechanic, if you really want to go with a mechanic like that at all

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Bludfist
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby Bludfist » 28 April 2016, 15:21

misfiring would be cool i guess every time it tries to shoot, it does a check and if it fails it doest fire but goes on CD again

the problem is that this would REAAAALLLY let people do mass novas and thats....thats just not fun :?
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
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Psymple
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby Psymple » 28 April 2016, 19:21

wtrgt wrote:nova weapons should not explode at all, period - it's a dice roll mechanic that punishes you if you're unlucky... for the rest of the match

having it misfire, so you waste your turn, or 'overheat', so that you have to wait a minute or two before being able to fire it again would be a much better mechanic, if you really want to go with a mechanic like that at all


You do realize that the whole game is based on dice rolls?
Thats sorta how it works. Orks being the way they are it makes sense for things to blow up, in almost all 40k games Orks have some sort of self crippling random chance ability, its like a part of the race...

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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby G13 » 29 April 2016, 06:47

Kadaeux wrote:
Psymple wrote:No; simple math I understand quite well.

Although considering your continual ranting and raving that Nova Kannons are bad because they always explode you perhaps dont.

A Nova Kannon has a 100% chance to fire once.
It then may explode, 25% and thus a 75% chance to fire twice.
Of that 75% to fire twice it has another 75% (56% chance) to not explode and thus fire a 3rd time.
Of that 56% chance it has another 75% chance to not explode (42% chance) and tuhs fire a 4th time.
Of that 42% chance again... this simple maths getting boring yet? has a 75% chance (31% chance to fire a 5th time)

Thus you have a better chance of firing five times than it blowing up after the first shot.


Apparently you don't. It has a 1 in 4 chance of exploding every time. The % doesn't change, ever. Its not a law of averages. The odds are that, on average, it will blow up 25% of the time every time. I have never, EVER, on any build, seen a Nova Kannon fire more than 3 times.

You don't have a "Better chance of firing 5 times than it blowing up on the first shot." The fact you believe you do is flat out delusional.

Psymple wrote:Presuming you are using 9k or 12k pulsars, yes, nova shots are actually pretty accurate at 9-12k.
It also forces you to stop using said pulsars before doing your whole shot or tank a nova shot to the face.


Nova Kannons are not accurate at any range. The fact you think it's "Pretty accurate at 9-12k" is proof positive you're lying through your teeth. It USED to be.



Actually Kadaeux, you are WRONG and he is right.

The probability that a Nova Kannon will fire 5 times OR MORE is 0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 0.316 (31.6%) (as you will always fire the first shot and if it doesn't blow up 4 times, you will always be able to fire the 5th)

This is typical of the arrogance of your posts, you attack other peoples posts simply claiming they are wrong and you are right, frequently with no evidence, stating your OPINIONS as facts.

Here you have been proven wrong by mathematics, and yet you still try to argue your opinion as correct. Laughable.

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Kadaeux
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby Kadaeux » 29 April 2016, 06:57

G13 wrote:Actually Kadaeux, you are WRONG and he is right.

The probability that a Nova Kannon will fire 5 times OR MORE is 0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 0.316 (31.6%) (as you will always fire the first shot and if it doesn't blow up 4 times, you will always be able to fire the 5th)

This is typical of the arrogance of your posts, you attack other peoples posts simply claiming they are wrong and you are right, frequently with no evidence, stating your OPINIONS as facts.

Here you have been proven wrong by mathematics, and yet you still try to argue your opinion as correct. Laughable.


No. I haven't been proven wrong. Because as much as you try to appeal to it. The fact of the matter is it is much more common than that as anybody who has played the game knows. I state facts. End of story.

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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby G13 » 29 April 2016, 07:03

Kadaeux wrote:
G13 wrote:Actually Kadaeux, you are WRONG and he is right.

The probability that a Nova Kannon will fire 5 times OR MORE is 0.75*0.75*0.75*0.75 = 0.316 (31.6%) (as you will always fire the first shot and if it doesn't blow up 4 times, you will always be able to fire the 5th)

This is typical of the arrogance of your posts, you attack other peoples posts simply claiming they are wrong and you are right, frequently with no evidence, stating your OPINIONS as facts.

Here you have been proven wrong by mathematics, and yet you still try to argue your opinion as correct. Laughable.


No. I haven't been proven wrong. Because as much as you try to appeal to it. The fact of the matter is it is much more common than that as anybody who has played the game knows. I state facts. End of story.


You are a horrific hypocrite.

Whenever someone else posts an opinion opposite to yours without evidence you are the first to attack it and demand they prove their point.

Here mathematics has proven you wrong.

But your opinions are all facts and everyone elses opinions are wrong right? :lol:

Hey Kadaeux, Mr. Mathematics wrong when he says 1+1=2 ??

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Kadaeux
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby Kadaeux » 29 April 2016, 07:07

G13 wrote:You are a horrific hypocrite.

Whenever someone else posts an opinion opposite to yours without evidence you are the first to attack it and demand they prove their point.

Here mathematics has proven you wrong.


No, it hasn't, since Experience proves your appeal to it wrong.

But your opinions are all facts and everyone elses opinions are wrong right? :lol:


No. Experience proves it wrong. But then, perhaps you missed the point on how theorycrafting and practical application and experience don't meet?

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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby G13 » 29 April 2016, 07:17

Kadaeux wrote:
G13 wrote:You are a horrific hypocrite.

Whenever someone else posts an opinion opposite to yours without evidence you are the first to attack it and demand they prove their point.

Here mathematics has proven you wrong.


No, it hasn't, since Experience proves your appeal to it wrong.

But your opinions are all facts and everyone elses opinions are wrong right? :lol:


No. Experience proves it wrong. But then, perhaps you missed the point on how theorycrafting and practical application and experience don't meet?


Keep digging.

You are experiencing something known as "being results based", more commonly known as "the gamblers fallacy"

If you flip a coin 2 times, and both times they were heads (100%), the chance of it being heads is still actually only 50%, despite the results.

If, even in 100s (or 1000s or any number really) of games of BFG:A, you have never seen a Nova Kannon fire more than 3 times, the probability that it CAN fire more than 3 times still remains constant (~42.2%)


You wouldn't be a very good Poker Player I'm afraid, you would never handle the swings :lol:

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Kadaeux
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Re: [Orks] - Blood Axe Nova Kannon explosion takes the WHOLE prow with it..? Why so?

Postby Kadaeux » 29 April 2016, 07:21

G13 wrote:Keep digging.

You are experiencing something known as "being results based", more commonly known as "the gamblers fallacy"

If you flip a coin 2 times, and both times they were heads (100%), the chance of it being heads is still actually only 50%, despite the results.

If, even in 100s (or 1000s or any number really) of games of BFG:A, you have never seen a Nova Kannon fire more than 3 times, the probability that it CAN fire more than 3 times still remains constant (~42.2%)


You wouldn't be a very good Poker Player I'm afraid, you would never handle the swings :lol:


Except that, *drumroll* it isn't a fallacy. Scientific theory and mathematical proofs are literally air on the wind without evidence to back them. When the equation says X, but repeated testing shows Y, then the equation, while perfectly valid itself, if it isn't reflected in practice. There is elements unaccounted for in it.


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