Traktor Beam Spam

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Cutbait
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Cutbait » 07 April 2016, 17:36

clench wrote:
HERO wrote:A lot of Ork vs. Imperial talk, and not enough consideration for the other factions in the game or coming to the game.

Just remember, regardless of how Eldar weaponry or Holo-fields will work, they have 25 armor and much lower HP for all their ships. This means that Ork ramming will be very much a thing to be considered, and amplified even more.

Add the fact that they have 6K range weapons and they're all prow-facing (meaning they have to come at you), the speed at which they will close will only benefit the current Ork strategy of tractor-guided rams (made even easier thanks to Tac Cog).



Difficult to consider factions that haven't been added whose mechanics most people have no idea about.



Adding to this thought we also have to consider that this may not be as big of a problem as you think. Only a really stupid eldar player is going to attempt to face an ork fleet head on. Anyone that does that deserves to lose. The eldar fleet is a flanking fleet. As you know, traktor beams are prow only. Also orks cant do high velocity turns. Eldar are the kings of maneuvers. It should be relatively easy for a good eldar player to dance around an ork player in relative safety.

EDIT: Tac Cog can also help the eldar players get away. Pretty sure the Eldar are really going to need the TC to keep a handle of all of their abilities.
Last edited by Cutbait on 07 April 2016, 17:38, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby clench » 07 April 2016, 17:37

Cutbait wrote:
clench wrote:
Jether wrote:Imps only have so many carriers where nearly every chaos ship is a carrier. Plus with max squadron sergeant your still going to get hit a bunch. The chaos carriers are even nicer in the fact they mostly all have heavy turrets that face in every direction except behind you and have 9k to 12k default range. They require little to no micro management and you have point and click torpedoes along with long range damage dealers all in the same package.


IN and Chaos have the same number of carriers available except Chaos can get LC with one bay on each side.

Dictator is better than a Devastation, though both are really good ships. The Styx has more bays than the Mars, but Mars has a Nova cannon and better macro batteries.

The Emperor is also better than the Despoiler if only for it's default sensor range.



Except for those of use that use plague fleets and can actually brawl. I have a level 8 ork and a level 8 chaos fleet.. My ork uses the traktor beams on all ships except the battleship(which is da goffs), and as I said my chaos fleet is a level 8 plague fleet that actually brawls(I take a desolator not the despoiler) which I find works REALLY well if you are careful. My imperial admiral is only level 5 and im considering restarting him now that ive played the imperials a little bit more. So im not necessarily qualified to speak on this, but from what I was seeing when playing the imperial fleet against the orks and chaos is against chaos the nova cannon is still a great tactic. I wish there were better ways to catch chaos fleets but you work with what you have. You just beat the crap out of one ship and when it runs finish it off with the nova.So chaos vs imperial is doable. Against orks is where a problem starts to occur, especially with the traktor beam. Orks are obviously around 3k range oprimal fighters. Imperials are around 6k optimal range fighters. It's almost impossible to keep yourself close enough to an ork fleet to do your damage while keeping yourself out of range of their guns. And that's without the traktor beam. With the traktor beam it is pretty much impossible. Combine that with boarding torpedoes and engine targeting and the imperial fleet is at a severe disadvantage. Same engine targeting thing happens with chaos when chaos is using overload generators on the lances. As it stands now I think the nova cannon may actually be the solution, maybe reduce its minimum range. Just some not well put together thoughts.



I guess this is where my issue lies.

The options Orks and Chaos have are a lot more diverse, while the IN is basically stuck endlessly chasing or endlessly running while doing no significant damage.

The only option for Imperials I believe would be a Nova/carrier heavy fleet which makes most of their ships hunks of junk and plays like a poor man's Chaos fleet. Also being really cheesy with AM favor and plasma bombs.

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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby HERO » 07 April 2016, 17:44

Cutbait wrote:
clench wrote:
HERO wrote:A lot of Ork vs. Imperial talk, and not enough consideration for the other factions in the game or coming to the game.

Just remember, regardless of how Eldar weaponry or Holo-fields will work, they have 25 armor and much lower HP for all their ships. This means that Ork ramming will be very much a thing to be considered, and amplified even more.

Add the fact that they have 6K range weapons and they're all prow-facing (meaning they have to come at you), the speed at which they will close will only benefit the current Ork strategy of tractor-guided rams (made even easier thanks to Tac Cog).



Difficult to consider factions that haven't been added whose mechanics most people have no idea about.



Adding to this thought we also have to consider that this may not be as big of a problem as you think. Only a really stupid eldar player is going to attempt to face an ork fleet head on. Anyone that does that deserves to lose. The eldar fleet is a flanking fleet. As you know, traktor beams are prow only. Also orks cant do high velocity turns. Eldar are the kings of maneuvers. It should be relatively easy for a good eldar player to dance around an ork player in relative safety.

EDIT: Tac Cog can also help the eldar players get away. Pretty sure the Eldar are really going to need the TC to keep a handle of all of their abilities.


Or so you think, only because things like Taunt and WMJ are not very skill-oriented abilities. They're pretty point and click and can course-correct or point them in a direction of their choosing.

One of the biggest issues I have with the current game, is that there are some upgrades and skills that are just so good, that everyone has them and for good reason. You literally handicap yourself for not having them.

Like I said, I think you're really underestimating just how much WMJ, Taunt, Traktors with Tac Cog will virtually negate any type of Eldar harass and pressure. We will see though, unfortunately not tomorrow, but we will see.

This last point though:
EDIT: Tac Cog can also help the eldar players get away. Pretty sure the Eldar are really going to need the TC to keep a handle of all of their abilities.


Only Mon-keigh will need it. True Eldar admirals will not!

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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Jether » 07 April 2016, 17:51

I can see traktors negating Eldar. Maybe give the traktor a chance to malfunction otherwise we will just see Eldar ships plucked out of space and torn apart by ork kannonz.
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 07 April 2016, 17:53

I might try imps out tonight see if they really are good for nothing rather than well-rounded.
I don't believe that theirs a balance prob with Orks vs chaos though. Unless you mean low lvl orks are underpowered vs low lvl chaos.
If so then buff them don't nerf all the fun skills.

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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Jether » 07 April 2016, 17:57

Pile_O_Gunz wrote:I might try imps out tonight see if they really are good for nothing rather than well-rounded.
I don't believe that theirs a balance prob with Orks vs chaos though. Unless you mean low lvl orks are underpowered vs low lvl chaos.
If so then buff them don't nerf all the fun skills.

Try every faction. Makes the game more fun lol
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 07 April 2016, 17:59

Jether wrote:I can see traktors negating Eldar. Maybe give the traktor a chance to malfunction otherwise we will just see Eldar ships plucked out of space and torn apart by ork kannonz.


Any nerfs to orks bag tricks need to be considered very carefully remember on ship stats alone Orks will always loose against Chaos due to the massive speed, range and stealth difference it's only the tricks that give them opportunities to win.
Last edited by Pile_O_Gunz on 07 April 2016, 18:00, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 07 April 2016, 17:59

Jether wrote:
Pile_O_Gunz wrote:I might try imps out tonight see if they really are good for nothing rather than well-rounded.
I don't believe that theirs a balance prob with Orks vs chaos though. Unless you mean low lvl orks are underpowered vs low lvl chaos.
If so then buff them don't nerf all the fun skills.

Try every faction. Makes the game more fun lol

I will apart from Eldar my sworn enemy.

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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Bludfist » 07 April 2016, 18:00

Jether wrote:I can see traktors negating Eldar. Maybe give the traktor a chance to malfunction otherwise we will just see Eldar ships plucked out of space and torn apart by ork kannonz.



add unstable attribute to trakktors and they become a useless favor

just like pre patch zzzaps, and blood axe favor

any thing that can ris destroying your prow weapons is not worth taking


and pigeonhole orks into bad moon favors witha sprinkle of goffs
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby HERO » 07 April 2016, 18:01

Jether wrote:
Pile_O_Gunz wrote:I might try imps out tonight see if they really are good for nothing rather than well-rounded.
I don't believe that theirs a balance prob with Orks vs chaos though. Unless you mean low lvl orks are underpowered vs low lvl chaos.
If so then buff them don't nerf all the fun skills.

Try every faction. Makes the game more fun lol


Honestly, part of me wants to accept the concept of how this game would be different if every faction had unique skills that benefited their own race.

I know that there is already some differentiation, but let's for just one moment, entertain that WMJ was only an Imperial tool and that Orkz, Chaos or Eldar simply didn't have it. How different would this entire thread be?


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