Traktor Beam Spam

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Navinor
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Navinor » 09 April 2016, 15:08

Magni wrote:
Navinor wrote:It does not matter if the IN can turn better than orcs or not.

Orcs right now are impositioning their playstyle on all the other factions.


So much nonsensical whining here.

Imperials having better turning and an infenitely more flexible boost only doesn't matter if the imperial player is too incompetent to use that massive advantage.

As shown in the twitch clip. You get close to orcs, you are dead! Especially on high levels. With the jumps you can not even outrun orcs.


Yeah, getting within 3k of Orks and staying there for any time is going to get you killed. THAT'S HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE! And whining about MWJs is nonsensical given that everyone has access to them and it becomes a matter of micro. Trakor Kannonz are a bit of an ace in the hole, but they only help so far if the Orkss' opponent knows what he's doing.

Right now you do not even need 3 buttons to play orcs!


Rubbish hyperbole.

Try to play a full torpedo fleet with IN for example against an orc fleet. While you will be microing your ass of with IN, the Orc player will just close up to you and BAM you are dead. You will not even be able to fire your torpedos.


Been there, done that. Nothing but more rubbish hyperbole.

Getting behind orcs it pointless. As shown in the twitch clip a good Orc player will not blob his fleet at one point.

When you jump behind the Orc to kill his engines you will still be dead, because there is another orc ship covering the rear!


Yeah, TRIPPLING the damage output of your non-lance weapons is pointless...

And I guess that Ork ship covering the rear will have another Ork ship covering its rear, ad infinitum, because the Ok player of course has infinite points and ships and even one of his ships can outgun your entire fleet. Your rubbish hyperbole gets more and more idiotic with every sentence now.

Orc playstyle is like this right now: Jump ability, tractor beam, big red button, win!


Against bad players, yes. That's not a problem with Orks, that's a problem with bad palyers.

Maybe Chaos has a chance against Orcs, because of the long lances.

But the IN is at a VERY bad spot against both. Chaos AND Orcs!


Bombers, actually. Ork ships DETEST bombers. And you thinking that N is in a bad spot vs both Orks and Chaos only shows that you are bad at playing IN.

The IN does not doing enough damage at long range and getting slaughtered at close range. Normally their best abilites should be torpedos and macro weapons. To use torpedos as a damage source you need to play like a Starcraft pro and their would be useless against Chaos anyway.


So go for mid-range agianst Orks. Also, learn how to use torps for denying maneuver space.

And we do not need to talk about macro weapons. Nobody will play with them as long you have use "run away" tactics against Orcs!

The problems are not the Orcs or the Chaos right now. It is the bad balanced IN fleet!


And more rubbish hyperbole. I guess I am "Nobody"... Oh wait, no, that's jsut you making a dumb assumption on the basis that everyone is as bad at palying IN as you are. IN is the msot flexible and variable fleet in the game right now, and that flexibility can be either a curse or a blessing depending on how well you understand to manage it.

I do not know how Eldar will be when they come out. But as we all know they will have prow mounted weapons.

And i can imagine how a fight against prow mounted weapon based orc ships will end, when the Eldar ships get tractor beam spammed and boarded. Because Eldar ships are really bad against boarding actions!


From what I've heard so far, their crusiers are also faster (and turn faster) than IN or Chaos escorts, they can still of AAF with their engines critted and they've got a lot of burst damage and respectable aounts of torpedoes and launch bays.

But you know what, everything's just speculation anyway. Doom&Gloom and hyperbole galore.


As bruce lee said: "When people are going at you, there must be some truth in your word...."

Well i am not the only one pointing out that IN has some problems right now. There is even a data sheet here in the forum, which shows the problems of the IN fleet. Search for it if you want!

IN are supposed to be Jack of all trades. But they are not! It is one thing when the faction is versatile and can build againt all other enemies.

At the moment they are BAD at both things. Range AND close combat!

Orcs are VERY easy to play. You can rant as much as you want, these guys are a faceroll faction right now!

You have to doubble your effort when you want to counter orcs. While orcs do not even have to care about positioning or tactics or anything else! Just smash some buttons, press engage all, spam some tractor beams and get the win!

The IN should be fearsome when they are showing you their broadsides! They are not a long range fighting faction! This faction is more like the navy from 1800.

But right now when you show your broadside, the orc just laughs about you and rams you to death!

Btw. I do not care much about the opinion of people who are insulting me of nowhere, because they fear their "boo boo OP faction" could get a nerf!

Tractor beam spam is a fact!

IN and their weakness right now is a fact!

And people building all their fleets only to counter orcs is a fact too!

(I really do not care what you say, because it is nonsense)

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Badgutz
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Badgutz » 02 May 2016, 09:49

Navinor wrote:
Magni wrote:
Navinor wrote:It does not matter if the IN can turn better than orcs or not.

Orcs right now are impositioning their playstyle on all the other factions.


So much nonsensical whining here.

Imperials having better turning and an infenitely more flexible boost only doesn't matter if the imperial player is too incompetent to use that massive advantage.

As shown in the twitch clip. You get close to orcs, you are dead! Especially on high levels. With the jumps you can not even outrun orcs.


Yeah, getting within 3k of Orks and staying there for any time is going to get you killed. THAT'S HOW IT IS SUPPOSED TO BE! And whining about MWJs is nonsensical given that everyone has access to them and it becomes a matter of micro. Trakor Kannonz are a bit of an ace in the hole, but they only help so far if the Orkss' opponent knows what he's doing.

Right now you do not even need 3 buttons to play orcs!


Rubbish hyperbole.

Try to play a full torpedo fleet with IN for example against an orc fleet. While you will be microing your ass of with IN, the Orc player will just close up to you and BAM you are dead. You will not even be able to fire your torpedos.


Been there, done that. Nothing but more rubbish hyperbole.

Getting behind orcs it pointless. As shown in the twitch clip a good Orc player will not blob his fleet at one point.

When you jump behind the Orc to kill his engines you will still be dead, because there is another orc ship covering the rear!


Yeah, TRIPPLING the damage output of your non-lance weapons is pointless...

And I guess that Ork ship covering the rear will have another Ork ship covering its rear, ad infinitum, because the Ok player of course has infinite points and ships and even one of his ships can outgun your entire fleet. Your rubbish hyperbole gets more and more idiotic with every sentence now.

Orc playstyle is like this right now: Jump ability, tractor beam, big red button, win!


Against bad players, yes. That's not a problem with Orks, that's a problem with bad palyers.

Maybe Chaos has a chance against Orcs, because of the long lances.

But the IN is at a VERY bad spot against both. Chaos AND Orcs!


Bombers, actually. Ork ships DETEST bombers. And you thinking that N is in a bad spot vs both Orks and Chaos only shows that you are bad at playing IN.

The IN does not doing enough damage at long range and getting slaughtered at close range. Normally their best abilites should be torpedos and macro weapons. To use torpedos as a damage source you need to play like a Starcraft pro and their would be useless against Chaos anyway.


So go for mid-range agianst Orks. Also, learn how to use torps for denying maneuver space.

And we do not need to talk about macro weapons. Nobody will play with them as long you have use "run away" tactics against Orcs!

The problems are not the Orcs or the Chaos right now. It is the bad balanced IN fleet!


And more rubbish hyperbole. I guess I am "Nobody"... Oh wait, no, that's jsut you making a dumb assumption on the basis that everyone is as bad at palying IN as you are. IN is the msot flexible and variable fleet in the game right now, and that flexibility can be either a curse or a blessing depending on how well you understand to manage it.

I do not know how Eldar will be when they come out. But as we all know they will have prow mounted weapons.

And i can imagine how a fight against prow mounted weapon based orc ships will end, when the Eldar ships get tractor beam spammed and boarded. Because Eldar ships are really bad against boarding actions!


From what I've heard so far, their crusiers are also faster (and turn faster) than IN or Chaos escorts, they can still of AAF with their engines critted and they've got a lot of burst damage and respectable aounts of torpedoes and launch bays.

But you know what, everything's just speculation anyway. Doom&Gloom and hyperbole galore.


As bruce lee said: "When people are going at you, there must be some truth in your word...."

Well i am not the only one pointing out that IN has some problems right now. There is even a data sheet here in the forum, which shows the problems of the IN fleet. Search for it if you want!

IN are supposed to be Jack of all trades. But they are not! It is one thing when the faction is versatile and can build againt all other enemies.

At the moment they are BAD at both things. Range AND close combat!

Orcs are VERY easy to play. You can rant as much as you want, these guys are a faceroll faction right now!

You have to doubble your effort when you want to counter orcs. While orcs do not even have to care about positioning or tactics or anything else! Just smash some buttons, press engage all, spam some tractor beams and get the win!

The IN should be fearsome when they are showing you their broadsides! They are not a long range fighting faction! This faction is more like the navy from 1800.

But right now when you show your broadside, the orc just laughs about you and rams you to death!

Btw. I do not care much about the opinion of people who are insulting me of nowhere, because they fear their "boo boo OP faction" could get a nerf!

Tractor beam spam is a fact!

IN and their weakness right now is a fact!

And people building all their fleets only to counter orcs is a fact too!

(I really do not care what you say, because it is nonsense)


I gotta agree with this ! I mix things up so as to not get too bored by using evil suns, blood axe, and bad moon in a mixed matchup. Might try goths purely coz everything else works a little too well. Lovin the massive punch ups when two ork fleets clash its beautiful brings a tear to my eye. But seriously I feel like we are in a good place atm............
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Bludfist
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Bludfist » 02 May 2016, 22:45

well this is an awful blast from the past thread; thankfully, one that is no longer relevant thanks to IN buffs

I disagree that orks are in a good place, just like eldar orks have issues on multiple aspects of the faction.

when the time comes to look at orks i know that Lucifronsun, I and others have much to discuss on the topic
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
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MadDemiurg
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby MadDemiurg » 02 May 2016, 22:47

Orks are in a good place in terms of power, but not in terms of gameplay and build and tactics diversity.

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Bludfist
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Bludfist » 02 May 2016, 22:58

MadDemiurg wrote:Orks are in a good place in terms of power, but not in terms of gameplay and build and tactics diversity.

exactly

However this lack of diversity comes from the fact that alternative weapon/favor options underperform compared to their alternatives

This is further escalated by how the kustomization system currently works
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
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EBA
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby EBA » 03 May 2016, 06:25

Bludfist wrote:well this is an awful blast from the past thread; thankfully, one that is no longer relevant thanks to IN buffs

I disagree that orks are in a good place, just like eldar orks have issues on multiple aspects of the faction.

when the time comes to look at orks i know that Lucifronsun, I and others have much to discuss on the topic


Still seems traktor, taunt, ram orks are better then the opponents

IN at high level are still stuck choosing the fleet they want to be competitive against and the fleets they want to lose against.

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Bludfist
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Bludfist » 03 May 2016, 08:13

EBA wrote:
Bludfist wrote:well this is an awful blast from the past thread; thankfully, one that is no longer relevant thanks to IN buffs

I disagree that orks are in a good place, just like eldar orks have issues on multiple aspects of the faction.

when the time comes to look at orks i know that Lucifronsun, I and others have much to discuss on the topic


Still seems traktor, taunt, ram orks are better then the opponents

IN at high level are still stuck choosing the fleet they want to be competitive against and the fleets they want to lose against.


Don't know what you mean, you don't really "need" multiple diverse ship classes for fleet set ups, can kinda run overlords and tyrants thanks to buffs to upgrades

IN v chaos is a balanced match up

IN v Orks, IN has range, mobility, bomber ant torp advantage and 22s of control with taunt that makes it easy to circle behind ships and prevent orks from focusing your ships

IN v eldar is just fielding dauntlesses and sword spam

Orks are just one playstyle across all game modes with the same set of "mandatory" skills, and upgrades across all ships
Trakktor cause no other favor is on par with it, and taunt is just as strong vs orks
IN;as a whole, just like chaos is in a good place and dosnt need more buffs and orks don't need more nerfs or they will for become inferior to SM
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
Image

EBA
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby EBA » 04 May 2016, 08:50

Bludfist wrote:
EBA wrote:
Bludfist wrote:well this is an awful blast from the past thread; thankfully, one that is no longer relevant thanks to IN buffs

I disagree that orks are in a good place, just like eldar orks have issues on multiple aspects of the faction.

when the time comes to look at orks i know that Lucifronsun, I and others have much to discuss on the topic


Still seems traktor, taunt, ram orks are better then the opponents

IN at high level are still stuck choosing the fleet they want to be competitive against and the fleets they want to lose against.


Don't know what you mean, you don't really "need" multiple diverse ship classes for fleet set ups, can kinda run overlords and tyrants thanks to buffs to upgrades

IN v chaos is a balanced match up

IN v Orks, IN has range, mobility, bomber ant torp advantage and 22s of control with taunt that makes it easy to circle behind ships and prevent orks from focusing your ships

IN v eldar is just fielding dauntlesses and sword spam

Orks are just one playstyle across all game modes with the same set of "mandatory" skills, and upgrades across all ships
Trakktor cause no other favor is on par with it, and taunt is just as strong vs orks
IN;as a whole, just like chaos is in a good place and dosnt need more buffs and orks don't need more nerfs or they will for become inferior to SM


The problem being that Orks outfight the IN constantly unless the IN specifically build to fight orks, eg carriers with nova support. Which will lose hilariously to Chaos and eldar.

To beat eldar IN goes nova heavy. Dauntlesses and swords are dumb. You'll not be able to catch the eldar and they will pulse your ships down extremely rapidly. With a nova line, you are pouring constant damage onto them through their lack of shields. It becomes a race to see if they can pulsar you down before nova attrition kills them. Also dominators are the heaviest macro cruiser in the IN arsenal.

Orks using a taunt, stasis, traktor combo will kill an IN ship in moments. MUCH MUCH MUCH faster then IN can do damage. As soon as orks close and use their skills, you'll have lost 2 line ships, while the orks might sustain a bit of damage on one of their large number of ships. Orks kill so fast at close range and skills allow for closing that it isn't a problem. Taunting orks just delays when they'll burn their skills to kill you, because they are also the tankiest ships and you literally can't put the DPS onto them even with an extended taunt, while they easily can.

Maybe chaos nurgle based brawl fleet can manage to dps orks down, seems like that set up puts out a ton of dps, but there is no IN configuration that is well suited to fighting orks unless you deliberately gimp your setup.

You NEED dominaters and tyrants. You probably want a overlord and mars each, and the emperor is still by far the best battle ship. Doesn't leave too much room for a carrier fleet.

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Bludfist
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby Bludfist » 04 May 2016, 12:39

EBA wrote:
The problem being that Orks outfight the IN constantly unless the IN specifically build to fight orks, eg carriers with nova support. Which will lose hilariously to Chaos and eldar.

To beat eldar IN goes nova heavy. Dauntlesses and swords are dumb. You'll not be able to catch the eldar and they will pulse your ships down extremely rapidly. With a nova line, you are pouring constant damage onto them through their lack of shields. It becomes a race to see if they can pulsar you down before nova attrition kills them. Also dominators are the heaviest macro cruiser in the IN arsenal.

Orks using a taunt, stasis, traktor combo will kill an IN ship in moments. MUCH MUCH MUCH faster then IN can do damage. As soon as orks close and use their skills, you'll have lost 2 line ships, while the orks might sustain a bit of damage on one of their large number of ships. Orks kill so fast at close range and skills allow for closing that it isn't a problem. Taunting orks just delays when they'll burn their skills to kill you, because they are also the tankiest ships and you literally can't put the DPS onto them even with an extended taunt, while they easily can.

Maybe chaos nurgle based brawl fleet can manage to dps orks down, seems like that set up puts out a ton of dps, but there is no IN configuration that is well suited to fighting orks unless you deliberately gimp your setup.

You NEED dominaters and tyrants. You probably want a overlord and mars each, and the emperor is still by far the best battle ship. Doesn't leave too much room for a carrier fleet.

while i get what you saying

Ravensburg wrote: in the classic multiplayers mode you have to build a fleet that will be able to face any situation

Ravensburg



it seems unfortunatly that, thats how the cookie crumbles

why the dev refuse the increase ship slots is beyond me but it is what it is and it dsnt seem like IN will be getting anymore buffs and orks are only getting new skills/upgrades
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
Image

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angelshard
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Re: Traktor Beam Spam

Postby angelshard » 04 May 2016, 12:58

Well, to be fair new skills and upgrades could make orks a lot more interesting, depending on what they do.


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