[Ravensburg] Orks update

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Sagranda
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Sagranda » 24 June 2016, 13:36

Gerver wrote:Yes kannons are unreliable, but even light krooza can use them and not every opponent is space marine (and why you even want to counter marines, their barge will die in a few zzap shots)
Zzap have insane crit, range and burst, I saw no one who could stand against 13 of them in 700 point match.


That's why you adjust those weapons, the stuff around them and nerf Zzaps.

They should be close range, but now they are best Dakka faction in game with awesome boardings


If you don't go full Zzaps, you get outbrawled by almost every faction in the game besides Eldar right now.

And you always face enemy with prow 75 armor, I dont know how enemy will flank them under torpedo and zzap barrage.


Stop taking only the current Zzaps into account when people want to bring Orks in an actual good spot.
And btw. silent running, using asteroid fields and gas clouds (situational, I know) and spreading out ships can one bring behind Ork ships.
It takes a good amount of effort, but it isn't impossible

Random crit that comes with +25 speed upgrade doesnt matter, since Orks now playing "stand and shoot"


It doesn't matter for Zzap fleets, that's true, but it matters when you want to field a close range Ork fleet.

And yes, orks are one-trick pony (But i played zzap fleet even when everyone cried about mega cannon madness in beta), but their single trick always OP. Just equip current rape build on your single ork fleet and go win.


I never denied that, but that does not put a fleet in a good spot when it comes to design and balance.
But that is what people actually want.
I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears
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Bludfist
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Bludfist » 24 June 2016, 13:43

All any of us ever wanted was for orks to have multiple playstyle options like other factions have and not go from 1 broken 1 trick boring playstyle to another, so coming here and reading stupid stuff like this

Gerver wrote:Just equip current rape build on your single ork fleet and go win.



Is irritating to say the least :roll:
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Gerver
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Gerver » 24 June 2016, 14:43

Bludfist wrote:All any of us ever wanted was for orks to have multiple playstyle options like other factions have and not go from 1 broken 1 trick boring playstyle to another, so coming here and reading stupid stuff like this

Gerver wrote:Just equip current rape build on your single ork fleet and go win.



Is irritating to say the least :roll:

I wouldnt say a word if thread started with words "we know that hangars overpriced, lotsa gunz horrible and heavy gunz is just a shade of mega kanon, so we want to fix this". But no, it was "poor orks nerfed to ground, sry we will buff you". Buff the fleet that will always outnumber you, that will always have 1.5-2 times more effective HP than you, that will outshoot you on any range, crit you to death, smash you with ramming.
And since multiplayer is about winning (roleplayers gonna roleplay) this thread looks even more ridiculous.
And no, I am not Navy or SPESS MUHRINES player.

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Bludfist
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Bludfist » 24 June 2016, 14:51

Gerver wrote:I wouldnt say a word if thread started with words "we know that hangars overpriced, lotsa gunz horrible and heavy gunz is just a shade of mega kanon, so we want to fix this". But no, it was "poor orks nerfed to ground, sry we will buff you".

fair enough

i see your point
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Ubikuuu
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Ubikuuu » 24 June 2016, 20:14

Except you were the champion of the people that caused this disaster.
Both here and on the Steam forums.
You and your marry brigade of Ork lamenters.

Nice job.
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Bludfist
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Bludfist » 24 June 2016, 23:21

Ubikuuu wrote:Except you were the champion of the people that caused this disaster.
Both here and on the Steam forums.
You and your marry brigade of Ork lamenters.

Nice job.


ORLLY?

lets see here for a second as i remember how we reached where we are now:

Orks a 1 trick pony faction of taunt, induction cell, MWJ trakktor pull; that was boring to play cause its the same playstyle every time regardless of opponent or game mode. Every ork feet was homogeneous, all the same upgrades, favors, skills and ship layout

Ork players lamented that Orks lacks so little variety

The devs release the balance patch that promised to bring more variety to orks

Devs remove 3k range from kannonz, ap rounds and 2.5k range upgrade from Orks, they give us More Dakka upgrade that in the grand scheme of thing is still awful and gunz are underwhelming compared to Kannonz and heavy gunz still due to requiring multiple upgrade slots and still being unable to out dps or crit heavy gunz

along with a pointlessly punishing looted ship status to ork ships just to for all intents and purposes make IN and their melta torps happy

Devs try and make chained squigs "not mandatory anymore" but nerfs to MoN and MoK cause a meta shift that makes MoS more prevalent in chaos fleets and they tie MWJ to warp out which hurt orks are they are more reliant on MWJ than most other faction

With taunt gone Orks became more reliant on the newly buffed Zzzap for chase mechanisms because the new speed upgrade meant you could no longer be liberal with your use of double BRB

Because of the fact that the slow is most effective when stacked everyone basically need to start putting zzzaps on all the ships that could field them, and because of the way kustom points worked that left only 1 point and the most effective theing you can have on youe ship at that point was the mega kannon.

This essentially ment the viability of broadside ship builds was gone as the only viable combo was prow heavy Zzzaps + MK and so ork players lamented the fact that orks were once again a 1 faction playstyle AND ON TOP OF THAT the fact that orks no longer had AP rounds ment that IN and Chaos ships could out brawl orks, a dedicated CQC faction

Then the devs released the SM patch, and released a faction that was all about crits and assualt actions into the meta and in that patch we lost belt armor (while every other faction lost the 100 hull upgrade), a critical loss, and in "compensation" got weirdboy tower, a Zzzap cannon that could not benefit from upgrades and could only be pushed up to 6k range because you need to spend the other 9 on master gunner, troop value and chained squigs which once again became mandatory again because on top of Chaos, IN and SM can cause leadership checks now

And SM also could outbrawl orks as well basically thanks to AP rounds and crippling assault actions making Orks the 4th best CQC faction
When we were Q&A testing the SM patch: me, sagranda, demoulius, imperator and MYNAME to name a few were all discussing; for multiple pages, the status of the orks due to the patch but the devs didn’t step in to mention that the belt armor thing was a bug so none of us knew

So ork players lamented again

Then post SM patch, the devs admit they were heavy handed with ork nerfs and they say they have plans to address that, they cut prices of all ork ships across the board

Literally
No
One
Asked
For
That

Now orks are broken, they can field an absurd number of Zzzaps and Nova kannonz, its ridiculous and unfun.

And still dosnt address the 1 trick pony issue, its as gerver said; all orks have ever done is go from 1 broken build to another cause multiple playstyle options were never possible or viable

All we ever wanted was that, and for the price cost of certain overpriced things like grot launch bays and the price cost difference between mega kannonz and trop launchers, some more reliability instead of an overabundance of on RNG

A faction with so much RNG will never be as competitive as a faction that is consistent and reliable, it maybe more fun but not as competitve.
This was always the problem with GW and their design of orks; and why the army is never considered competitively viable, cause the put in so many randumb mechanic like gunz

MYNAME, Sagranda, myself and others have all made interesting and valid suggestions for addressing those issues that I guess never fit with the devs vision for the faction.

But the way things are now, none of us asked for any of this.

Was that a fun trip down memory lane?
Ork players don’t whine for everything; we actually had a reason, we’re not over entitled IN players :lol:
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Sagranda
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Sagranda » 25 June 2016, 00:08

A few corrections:

Mass Zzaps became ridiculous in the same patch that introduced their upgrades and the nerfs to the Kannonz.
The most efficient way was to put all points in Zzaps and either a Grot Ship Launcha on a Hammer/Deathdeala or use the Terror as defensive carrier. (I prefer the Terror)
The Megakannon could already be ignored at this point, since the changes made it too unreliable (unless lady luck is sucking your...well...you get the idea).

They also introduced the Looted Ship trait at the same time, which made Ork ships more fragile to Fires and Hull Breaches and from my observation so far those occur more often than before now.

When we were Q&A testing the SM patch: me, sagranda, demoulius, imperator and MYNAME to name a few were all discussing; for multiple pages, the status of the orks due to the patch but the devs didn’t step in to mention that the belt armor thing was a bug so none of us knew


MYNAME isn't part of it.

The changes to the Gunz also weren't mentioned



Since the Orks arrived in the beta we made a lot of suggestions about how to bring Orks in an actual good or at least a better spot.
Nothing of it was implemented (or almost nothing? Can't remember every single thing).
So the current state isn't because of the Ork players, but because of the decisions, of the vision of the Devs.
So please think about it for a second before directing the "blame" towards someone. You might throw it at the wrong persons.
I play Orkz to collect all those salty Imperial tears
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Spartan-089
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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Spartan-089 » 25 June 2016, 00:51

1st I would like to thank Ravensburg and the Dev team for being much more attentive than before, I was surprised they released a fix patch so soon after the SM release. We do appreciate the work that entail.

Like I mentioned in various other topics on the issue, if you make them the best brawlers like they are supposed to be, you need to give them an adequate chase tool, if you removed Zapps from the game in its current state orks would literally be unplayable because tracktors wont help you get close to an enemy ship sniping you from 12-15k away and Nova Kannons will break. I also think Zzaps are fine because since orks are now the 4th best brawling faction they need to soften up the enemy before getting into a brawl, if you try to close the gap with another brawler as orks without Zzaps you will lose because all your guns are 3k while other brawlers have at least 6k-9k weapons, they can get a good damage on you before you can even land a shot.

If you need to netf them take away the range upgrade or reduce the the bypass chance at extreme range or lessen the damage slightly. But dont take it away without replacing it with something that can let us close the gap with ships effectively.
Kommando Blitza is da most kunning and savage ork there iz.

Orkz iz okay

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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Imperator5 » 25 June 2016, 03:52

I would not say the orks are the 4th brawling faction... at least not until SM get the battle barge. But that monster is costing so many points it deserves to be brutal.

I also kind of like that more ork ships can be deployed. I do not deny that it causes inbalances that needs some fix, but orks using superior numbers is just soo.... orky. :mrgreen:

I honestly also liked the Weirdboy tower because I mostly play against the AI, which seldom makes orks warp out. So I got points to spend in it and its 270 degrees lance that is seriously cool for SP on your Bashas.

I also felt that AP ammo removal, while would be fine if applied to all factions, was odd that it was removed from orks only. Not really fair. Because I was afraid it would negate SM armour. I did not know sm would get eldar health values, or I would have been yelling about lance AP that is now the utter bane of Marines.

Also I felt like the big imbalance with mega kannons could have been fixed by making them fire faster, but with less damage while keeping the same dps to lower burst. It would also have made them less RNG dependant.

RNG is not really good for strategy games. In this game, it doesn't really matter with fast firing weapons. There are enough shots to average the RNG out.
But with slow firing stuff like Novas, Kannonz, Bombardments, Torpedoes, Bombers, it is really too random. That's why I was trying to get armour to become a damage reduction like it is in almost EVERY RTS GAME instead of the chance to fully negate damage that is only in silly boardgames for a good reason.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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Re: [Ravensburg] Orks update

Postby Ubikuuu » 25 June 2016, 07:58

Oh man the amount of intellectual dishonesty form Orks is hilarious.
I could go post digging, but I know yall would just go the Way of the Donald.

No, instead I will be out there annihilating "noobs" with my Zzaps.
Dismantling the delirium you created one free win at a time.

Have fun XD.
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