Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Wot is da best way to blow up gitz? DAKKA DAKKA DAKKA!
TheMaster42
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby TheMaster42 » 03 April 2016, 11:01

Absolutely agree. Bonus of making this change: the player feedback is much better.

As a new player, it's unintuitive to see Ork ships get close, do nothing, and then glance back at your ship and see 3/4 of its health is suddenly gone. Everything else in the game does damage mostly gradually, or with a notable effect (torpedoes, plasma bombs, etc.). Mega Kannons do the most damage of anything in the game, but look like the weakest battery in the game.

You have to play as Orks or see the Ork tooltip and notice that it's 144 damage, to understand why your ships are magically just chunking every 12 seconds. Every other weapon in the game is much more intuitive when it's used on you.

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clench
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby clench » 03 April 2016, 15:44

Honestly not sure what you guys are looking at.

I was playing Ork all last night and once you get around 6K space is filled with Ork shells. It's actually quite impressive.

The fire rate looks fine and it's very thematic. The only thing that would make it better is if you could hear Orks chanting Dakkadakkadakka while you're in firing range.

The balance is actually in a pretty good place right now I think, I was playing hard all weekend with all three factions and was very successful with all of them. If anything needs to change I think Ork ships are still a bit too cheap. Taking a Mega Kannon actually makes your ship cost less than torpedos... Right now in a 600 pts game you can take 1 BB, 1 BC, 1 Cruiser and 1 LC which can be a lot for most to deal with. Ork battleship can take such a beating and only costs about 200pts.

I made an Ork rage quit as IN and an IN player accuse me of cheating as Ork. Chaos is so easy to do well with, their speed makes them easy winners in most of the objective based missions. Doing well with Chaos takes a lot of patience and Tzeentch clouds in the more combat focused missions.

Beernchips
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby Beernchips » 03 April 2016, 15:56

In additon, it is a misconception of thinking Orks are only about shooting a lot of low efficiency weapons and hoping they hit something. They have also access to someof the most powerful weapons because they love the big guns destroying everything.

The gunz are here for the dakka, the kannons with high damage, low RoF and low accuracy are here for the big boom
Repent, for tomorrow you die

Pile_O_Gunz
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby Pile_O_Gunz » 03 April 2016, 16:02

I don't see the problem if I equip a weapon called mega cannon I expect large spike damage not a machine gun.

Here's a tip - if he's attacking you with prow facing he's got a massive mega cannon if he's using broadsides he hasn't.

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HERO
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby HERO » 03 April 2016, 19:56

Beernchips wrote:In additon, it is a misconception of thinking Orks are only about shooting a lot of low efficiency weapons and hoping they hit something. They have also access to someof the most powerful weapons because they love the big guns destroying everything.

The gunz are here for the dakka, the kannons with high damage, low RoF and low accuracy are here for the big boom


But is it good for gameplay is what you should be asking yourself. Is it fun for either player if the gun is doing outrageous damage, or none at all?

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BrianDavion
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby BrianDavion » 03 April 2016, 20:08

Beernchips wrote:In additon, it is a misconception of thinking Orks are only about shooting a lot of low efficiency weapons and hoping they hit something. They have also access to someof the most powerful weapons because they love the big guns destroying everything.

The gunz are here for the dakka, the kannons with high damage, low RoF and low accuracy are here for the big boom



keep in mind that time in BFG is compressed. IIRC each turn in BFG represented something like an hour.

Beernchips
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby Beernchips » 03 April 2016, 20:15

par HERO » 03 avril 2016, 21:56

Beernchips a écrit :
In additon, it is a misconception of thinking Orks are only about shooting a lot of low efficiency weapons and hoping they hit something. They have also access to someof the most powerful weapons because they love the big guns destroying everything.

The gunz are here for the dakka, the kannons with high damage, low RoF and low accuracy are here for the big boom


But is it good for gameplay is what you should be asking yourself. Is it fun for either player if the gun is doing outrageous damage, or none at all?


Yes it is. Some players have fun when there is randomness in the game either in their side or in enemy side. Others have no fun when randomness is involved.
Reducing the randomness with more linear damage output will please some players and will bored others because each player is different
Repent, for tomorrow you die

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HERO
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby HERO » 03 April 2016, 20:45

Beernchips wrote:
par HERO » 03 avril 2016, 21:56

Beernchips a écrit :
In additon, it is a misconception of thinking Orks are only about shooting a lot of low efficiency weapons and hoping they hit something. They have also access to someof the most powerful weapons because they love the big guns destroying everything.

The gunz are here for the dakka, the kannons with high damage, low RoF and low accuracy are here for the big boom


But is it good for gameplay is what you should be asking yourself. Is it fun for either player if the gun is doing outrageous damage, or none at all?


Yes it is. Some players have fun when there is randomness in the game either in their side or in enemy side. Others have no fun when randomness is involved.
Reducing the randomness with more linear damage output will please some players and will bored others because each player is different


Excellent point, and I agree fully with your assessment.

Now, do you think that the current design of the weapons in terms of RNG is better for online competitive play?

Cerberus1426
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby Cerberus1426 » 03 April 2016, 21:23

on top of this they need to lower the accuracy of them all around by alot somehow orks win firefights even at a distance.

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Imperator5
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Re: Ork weapons; halve the dmg, double the fire rate

Postby Imperator5 » 03 April 2016, 21:31

Agreed totally. Reasons for agreeing:

-Armour negates some shots randomly. This can lead to even bigger randomisation with low rate of fire but high damage guns.
-Low rate of fire but huge damage makes for too unstable burst, which is hard to balance. Too big initial damage.
-Ork ships should have lots of dakka and firepower.
-Higher rate of fire but lower damage with the same DPS gives a more stable damage output, thus less likely to go OP or UP.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

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viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.


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