Using OP tactics in Beta

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Ironhide
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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Ironhide » 17 March 2016, 14:23

Duke84 wrote:
Larkis wrote:Using Op BUilds in beta is the best thing we could do. So the developer see what is imbalanced and change it. ;)

+1

that's the best way to play the beta, we should find exploits to be fixed before retail launch


Actually it isn't. You don't fix balance issues until you know how they function against all the fleets that will be available. We still do not know how Imps and Chaos will perform against Orks, Eldar, or Space Marines.
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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Demoulius » 17 March 2016, 14:30

I agree that trying out broken combinations is a good thing. Cant adress them if you dont find them first. Kinda what beta testers are about.

If you stick to using the same broken/OP tactic instead of trying different things though you start to lose me... Im sure there are more broken things then NC, teleporting and statis bombs+normal bombs combos.

Think we need to try as many things as possible so we can tell whatever abilities or OP, UP or balanced. If you then want to stick to a powerfull combination once the game is live, sure :P

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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Imperator5 » 17 March 2016, 15:26

Ironhide wrote:
Duke84 wrote:
Larkis wrote:Using Op BUilds in beta is the best thing we could do. So the developer see what is imbalanced and change it. ;)

+1

that's the best way to play the beta, we should find exploits to be fixed before retail launch


Actually it isn't. You don't fix balance issues until you know how they function against all the fleets that will be available. We still do not know how Imps and Chaos will perform against Orks, Eldar, or Space Marines.


This. Novas were useless against orks, but one of the few things that could save your rear from Eldar. Eldar could not be hit with macrocannons in CTT unless their engines were already disabled.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

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MisterMorden
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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby MisterMorden » 17 March 2016, 15:36

Demoulius wrote:If you stick to using the same broken/OP tactic instead of trying different things though you start to lose me...



this is the point. there are no rules, but it is really low to overuse OP tactics in a beta.

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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Cyk0 » 17 March 2016, 16:18

Imperator5 wrote: Eldar could not be hit with macrocannons in CTT unless their engines were already disabled.

Now thats a change from the table top, there long range batteries were good against then (carnage for example)

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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Imperator5 » 17 March 2016, 16:26

Cyk0 wrote:
Imperator5 wrote: Eldar could not be hit with macrocannons in CTT unless their engines were already disabled.

Now thats a change from the table top, there long range batteries were good against then (carnage for example)


From CTT, "what's good against eldar" seems to have been reversed from TT.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

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HERO
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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby HERO » 17 March 2016, 18:04

Imperator5 wrote:
Cyk0 wrote:
Imperator5 wrote: Eldar could not be hit with macrocannons in CTT unless their engines were already disabled.

Now thats a change from the table top, there long range batteries were good against then (carnage for example)


From CTT, "what's good against eldar" seems to have been reversed from TT.


Yup. Which is VERY, very odd. You would think a single lance shot would be wildly inaccurate against Holo-fields, and that the peppering barrage of multiple macrocannons would fair better.

Holo-fields on the TT reads as follows:
"Against attacks that use the Gunnery table, the holo-fields cause on column shift to the right, in addition to any other column shifts for range or blast markers. Against any other form of attack (lances, torpedoes, etc), roll to hit an Eldar ship as normal, but the Eldar player may then make a saving roll for his Holo-fields."

That roll was a 2+, or a 83% chance to save, which pretty much means that 17% of "everything else" simply missed or had no effect other than placing a blast marker.

The right shift on the gunnery table is also accuracy based. In the current game, that would be about a 20-30% accuracy decrease since range seems to be the only deciding factor on accuracy.

Basically, to be a threat vs. the Eldar, you needed to throw a lot of dice. In this game, the ships that pose the highest risk should be ships that have A LOT of guns (just hit percentages at that point). In CTT, everything was reversed. All the movement and stuff looked good, just that the combat was completely reversed.

That makes me sad, worried, and outright apprehensive about how the Eldar perform in the next.... week.

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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Imperator5 » 17 March 2016, 18:13

Honestly, I understand if they did not go for the TT route, for that would make orks and imperial good against them, but chaos would have very little to counter.

I think the best solution for Eldar would be an overall dodge chance to all attacks, but not making any of them totally useless, neither lances nor macros.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

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HERO
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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby HERO » 17 March 2016, 18:29

Imperator5 wrote:Honestly, I understand if they did not go for the TT route, for that would make orks and imperial good against them, but chaos would have very little to counter.

I think the best solution for Eldar would be an overall dodge chance to all attacks, but not making any of them totally useless, neither lances nor macros.


Disagreed, but not by a lot. It all depends on how they do their version of Holo-fields. As you know, the table-top version was a straight 83% to miss.

However, in this game, Holo-fields vary by effectiveness depending on whether or not the Eldar is moving at full speed and the like. So at full speed and Holo-fields effectiveness, it will be 83%. Stationary will be 0%, and anything in between varies proportionally. This might seem like a lot right now, but this is also real-time. A single lance with a 8 second reload will shoot 7.5 times per minute. That's ~1.275 lance HITS on the Eldar ship, ignoring armor, and doing straight damage, on a ship with barely any HP.

Last time I checked, there's multiple ships, and multiple batteries of lances. A battery of 4 lances from the same ship has 30 shots per minute, with 5 hitting every minute, from one ship, from 15k away because of some upgrades.

While 83% seems like a lot, trust me, in real-time it is not.

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Re: Using OP tactics in Beta

Postby Imperator5 » 17 March 2016, 19:00

HERO wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:Honestly, I understand if they did not go for the TT route, for that would make orks and imperial good against them, but chaos would have very little to counter.

I think the best solution for Eldar would be an overall dodge chance to all attacks, but not making any of them totally useless, neither lances nor macros.


Disagreed, but not by a lot. It all depends on how they do their version of Holo-fields. As you know, the table-top version was a straight 83% to miss.

However, in this game, Holo-fields vary by effectiveness depending on whether or not the Eldar is moving at full speed and the like. So at full speed and Holo-fields effectiveness, it will be 83%. Stationary will be 0%, and anything in between varies proportionally. This might seem like a lot right now, but this is also real-time. A single lance with a 8 second reload will shoot 7.5 times per minute. That's ~1.275 lance HITS on the Eldar ship, ignoring armor, and doing straight damage, on a ship with barely any HP.

Last time I checked, there's multiple ships, and multiple batteries of lances. A battery of 4 lances from the same ship has 30 shots per minute, with 5 hitting every minute, from one ship, from 15k away because of some upgrades.

While 83% seems like a lot, trust me, in real-time it is not.


Trust me, its too much. I had the misfortune to face against eldar in early game where you only got macros OR lances and dont have that spare Gothic cruiser around.

All weapons need to be somewhat effective against Eldar. Also, making stationary eldar have no holofield REALLY punishes players so it is something I would not do either.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.


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