Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Share your heretic strategies. Death to the false Emperor!
User avatar
HERO
Posts: 888
Joined: 27 October 2015, 04:09

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby HERO » 14 March 2016, 20:06

I think you did a good job for sure, but an shared excel would do wonders for gathering metrics like this.

User avatar
Imperator5
(Former) Technical Tester
Posts: 3063
Joined: 22 December 2015, 07:46
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby Imperator5 » 14 March 2016, 20:10

Trust me, when I want to be douchy, its sprinkled with waves of waves of more sarcasm and cursewords. But I leave that for 4chan.

Your idea is good, dps numbers are needed, I just think that the format I used makes it easier for people to check it out and "browse through it" easily, as if it was a catalogue.

To show I'm not just being an **** I'll do the rest of them too.

Desolator:
Lances: 7 dps 12k range
Macrocannons at 3k: 2.8 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 2.1 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 1.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.1 dps
Macrocannons at 12k: 0.7 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.4 dps

Acheron:
Lances: 4 dps 12k range
Macrocannons at 3k: 1.2 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 0.9 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 0.6 dps

Slaughter:
Lances: 2 dps 6k range
Macrocannons at 3k: 4.4 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 3.3 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 0.54 dps

Carnage:
Macrocannons at 3k: 4.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 4.4 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 3.3 dps with accuracy upgrade 4.4 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 2.2 dps with accuracy upgrade 3.3 dps

This is assuming the Better accuracy gives 20% hot chance bonus from 6k and farther away, and that I got all the numbers right.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

Please help me change skirmish to be customisable. Its very important for PVE players.

viewtopic.php?f=3&t=515 Mod idea.

Jectulg
Posts: 226
Joined: 14 February 2016, 18:50
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby Jectulg » 14 March 2016, 21:29

Imperator5 wrote:Trust me, when I want to be douchy, its sprinkled with waves of waves of more sarcasm and cursewords. But I leave that for 4chan.

Your idea is good, dps numbers are needed, I just think that the format I used makes it easier for people to check it out and "browse through it" easily, as if it was a catalogue.

To show I'm not just being an **** I'll do the rest of them too.

Just to add more of Chaos:
Despoiler:
Lances: 3 dps 12k range 270 degrees
Lances: 4 dps 12k range 90 degrees front
Macrocannons at 3k: 11.2 dps with accuracy upgrade 11.2 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 8.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 8.4 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 5.6 dps with accuracy upgrade 8.4 dps
Macrocannons at 12k: 2.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 4.8 dps

Styx:
Lances: 2 dps 12k range 270 degrees
Macrocannons at 3k: 1.6 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.6 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 1.2 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.2 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 0.8 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.2 dps

Also VanHoven you're taking constructive criticism too harshly.

VanHoven
Posts: 465
Joined: 13 March 2016, 19:49
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby VanHoven » 14 March 2016, 23:16

Yes you are right i over reacted. On the other hand if the constructive criticism had come in the way of... well you know, constructive criticism i had reacted differently. And if imperator hadnt done the exact same thing in like 3 different threads, i certainly wouldnt have reacted that way. but thanks to both of you. that certainly looks better than what i did.

Lucifronsun
Posts: 406
Joined: 13 March 2016, 01:41
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby Lucifronsun » 14 March 2016, 23:46

VanHoven wrote:Yes you are right i over reacted. On the other hand if the constructive criticism had come in the way of... well you know, constructive criticism i had reacted differently. And if imperator hadnt done the exact same thing in like 3 different threads, i certainly wouldnt have reacted that way. but thanks to both of you. that certainly looks better than what i did.


It was entirely constructive criticism. Your posts are a mash of bad spelling and no spacing, not to mention grammar.

Imperator5 wrote:Your original post, and most of your posts, need to be more structured and ... more excel sheet-y for this kind of thing.
Something like this, I'll help you do the Desolator as a template:

Desolator:
Lances: 7 dps 12k range
Macrocannons at 3k: 2.8 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 2.1 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 1.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.1 dps
Macrocannons at 12k: 0.7 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.4 dps


The lance dps is not that high, it's less than half that. 6 turrets shooting a 1 lance per for 3 damage every 6 seconds. 6 x 3 = 18 x 10 volleys per minute = 180 damage per minute divided by 60 = 3

Demoulius
Posts: 690
Joined: 16 February 2016, 08:15
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby Demoulius » 14 March 2016, 23:54

Should be very easy to put into an excel format :)

I can do that tomorrow (going to bed in a few) if noone else feels like doing it :mrgreen:

VanHoven
Posts: 465
Joined: 13 March 2016, 19:49
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby VanHoven » 15 March 2016, 00:22

Lucifronsun wrote:
VanHoven wrote:Yes you are right i over reacted. On the other hand if the constructive criticism had come in the way of... well you know, constructive criticism i had reacted differently. And if imperator hadnt done the exact same thing in like 3 different threads, i certainly wouldnt have reacted that way. but thanks to both of you. that certainly looks better than what i did.


It was entirely constructive criticism. Your posts are a mash of bad spelling and no spacing, not to mention grammar.

Imperator5 wrote:Your original post, and most of your posts, need to be more structured and ... more excel sheet-y for this kind of thing.
Something like this, I'll help you do the Desolator as a template:

Desolator:
Lances: 7 dps 12k range
Macrocannons at 3k: 2.8 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 2.1 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 1.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.1 dps
Macrocannons at 12k: 0.7 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.4 dps


The lance dps is not that high, it's less than half that. 6 turrets shooting a 1 lance per for 3 damage every 6 seconds. 6 x 3 = 18 x 10 volleys per minute = 180 damage per minute divided by 60 = 3


oh hi there, you :) its my lucky day, isnt it? oh my... yes, my english isnt very good and im out of training, but i think i can make people understand what i'm trying to say. constructive criticism has nothing to do with telling people how they should do things and that they are wrong. thats just criticism. maybe you both skipped that day at school? and i know, i know, i'm sorry to bother you with my bad spelling and my bad grammar and on top of that the bad spacing, i guess its my own fault that you ignore what i'm writing. heck, most discussions are like that. but enough of that.

To your point with the lance dps: There are 6 turrets on each side of the desolator with 2 barrels each. on prow turrets each barrel has its own attack. i suppose that its the same with the broadside turrets, its just a wrong tooltip. so its 12 shots a 3 damage every 6 seconds, 12 x 3 = 36 /6 = 7.

Otherwise the dps would be veeeeery weak. especially compared to the despoiler battleship, which has alone with his macro turrets on the broadsides 14 dps under perfect conditions. 12 turrets per macro cannon battery of which he has 2 and than another 4 on top of the hangar. Adding to that 3 lance dps from his 270° top mounted lances. And another 4 lance dps in his front arc from his super heavy prow lance. Well, and three hangar bays of course.

Jectulg
Posts: 226
Joined: 14 February 2016, 18:50
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby Jectulg » 15 March 2016, 00:34

Demoulius wrote:Should be very easy to put into an excel format :)

I can do that tomorrow (going to bed in a few) if noone else feels like doing it :mrgreen:

I've put every weapon into an excel sheet. The biggest thing is how armor actually works. Assuming its a flat % Macro weapons produce more dps at 3k, and less dps at 6k for Imperials. A Gothic upgraded to 9k ranges and 50% more dmg vs shields is actually one of the best options, although in close range a Dominator will win, esp with the ignore armor upgrade.

This biggest things of note I think are the battleships. The Emperor matches the Retribution's marco weapon dps. The Retribution has 3 lances and torps vs the Emperor's 4 Launch Bays and increased sensor range. The Desolator seems to be almost completely outmatched by the Despoiler in raw firepower, while the Despoiler also has Launch Bays.

Lucifronsun
Posts: 406
Joined: 13 March 2016, 01:41
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby Lucifronsun » 15 March 2016, 00:43

VanHoven wrote:
Lucifronsun wrote:
VanHoven wrote:Yes you are right i over reacted. On the other hand if the constructive criticism had come in the way of... well you know, constructive criticism i had reacted differently. And if imperator hadnt done the exact same thing in like 3 different threads, i certainly wouldnt have reacted that way. but thanks to both of you. that certainly looks better than what i did.


It was entirely constructive criticism. Your posts are a mash of bad spelling and no spacing, not to mention grammar.

Imperator5 wrote:Your original post, and most of your posts, need to be more structured and ... more excel sheet-y for this kind of thing.
Something like this, I'll help you do the Desolator as a template:

Desolator:
Lances: 7 dps 12k range
Macrocannons at 3k: 2.8 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 6k: 2.1 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.8 dps
Macrocannons at 9k: 1.4 dps with accuracy upgrade 2.1 dps
Macrocannons at 12k: 0.7 dps with accuracy upgrade 1.4 dps


The lance dps is not that high, it's less than half that. 6 turrets shooting a 1 lance per for 3 damage every 6 seconds. 6 x 3 = 18 x 10 volleys per minute = 180 damage per minute divided by 60 = 3


oh hi there, you :) its my lucky day, isnt it? oh my... yes, my english isnt very good and im out of training, but i think i can make people understand what i'm trying to say.


Ok?

constructive criticism has nothing to do with telling people how they should do things and that they are wrong. thats just criticism.


Telling people that they're doing something in a subpar manner and showing them how to improve, is constructive criticism. That fact that it makes perfect sense, but you don't like being told that, doesn't change that.

maybe you both skipped that day at school? and i know, i know, i'm sorry to bother you with my bad spelling and my bad grammar and on top of that the bad spacing, i guess its my own fault that you ignore what i'm writing. heck, most discussions are like that. but enough of that.


Irony.

To your point with the lance dps:


I was talking about the desolator, and I'm counting the dps of a single broadside, not both ends of the boat.

There are 6 turrets on each side of the despoiler with 2 barrels each. on prow turrets each barrel has its own attack. i suppose that its the same with the broadside turrets, its just a wrong tooltip. so its 12 shots a 3 damage every 6 seconds, 12 x 3 = 36 /6 = 7.


The despoiler doesn't have broadside lances. It has prow mounted lances that do 6 dps under ideal conditions, which is very very rare for a 90 degree prow weapon. And if you don't mind, please provide the source of your information that states the tooltips are wrong.

Otherwise the dps would be veeeeery weak. especially compared to the other battleship, which has alone with his macro turrets on the broadsides 14 dps under perfect conditions. 12 turrets per macro cannon battery of which he has 2 and than another 4 on top of the hangar. Adding to that 3 lance dps from his 270° top mounted lances.


What ship are you even talking about? None of the chaos battleships have 270 degree prow lances.

VanHoven
Posts: 465
Joined: 13 March 2016, 19:49
Contact:

Re: Macro Cannons vs. Lances, a Chaos Fleet view and some (a lot of) numbers

Postby VanHoven » 15 March 2016, 00:46

yep, that kinda occured to me too. okay, the retribution has double range, but macro cannons really suck beyond 9k range so its not really that important. the devs must value torpedos really high. i've read that in the alpha and last test torpedos were much stronger, maybe that explains it.


Return to “Chaos Warfleet”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest

cron