Chaos Ships and Stuff

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Drakausa
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Chaos Ships and Stuff

Postby Drakausa » 23 February 2016, 02:51

Fleet Commander (0-1) Chaos Warmaster - 100 points
Leadership +2; 1 Re-roll; Mark of Chaos.
Extra Re-Roll (25 points).

Abbadon Leadership 10 - 195 points.
+1 leadership roll per Turn.
Double Boarding action value and +1 Boarding Modifier.
Hit-and-run attacks on his ship are (-1); Accompanied by Black legion Terminators allow (+1) Teleport.

Chaos Lord (Any Capitol Ship).
Leadership +1 (+25 points).Optional Mark of Chaos.
Add Chaos Space Marines (+35 points). Mark must match Chapter Loyalty.
Any Chaos BB or BC that have a Warmaster on board may have Chaos Chosen Terminators at cost of (10 points).

Chaos Ships:
BB - Despoiler 400.
Desolater - 300.
Grand cruisers:
Repulsive - 230.
Vengeance - 230.
Retaliator - 275.
Executor - 210.
HC - Heavy Cruisers:*********Escorts:
Styx - 290. --------------------------Idolator - 45.
Hades - 210. ------------------------Infidel - 40.
Acheron - 190. ---------------------Iconoclast - 30.
CC Cruisers:
Devastation - 190
Murder - 170
Carnage - 180
Slaughter - 165

These are just some ship costs from the TT board game. However I do think, whatever scale our game will use, they will give a rough idea of the relative values placed on the performance of these type of ships for Chaos. So Chaos players start working out fleet buying from the (possibly) 250, 500, 750 and 1000 point fleets. Caliger has some great profiles out there and I believe Chaos is coming next for the 'roles' such ship will be designed for in a fleet battle.

Hey now - We imperials have Marks of the Emperor too:
Mark of the Eeeewwuu! - +1 Disgust of Chaos
Mark of the Zealot - +2 to Self Smugness
Mark of the Uuuurp! - Re-roll on Projectile Vomit Guns
Mark of Cursing - Volumn Increase when we Miss

Jectulg
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Re: Chaos Ships and Stuff

Postby Jectulg » 23 February 2016, 06:59

Might be worth putting a sentence or two to the ships so that those who know little or nothing have a basic idea.



Battleships: Unlike the Imperial variant Chaos BBs tend to support the fleet rather than be the core of it. They aren't the hard rock Imperial BBs are, but can just as easily turn the tides if used right.

Despoiler 400
-Carrier on par with the Emperor-class BB. Faster and uses long range lance weaponry.

Desolator 300
-Very Fast BB able to outrun Imperial cruisers. Nice firepower at long range but can be lacking in a brawl.



Grand Cruisers: The heavy brawlers of Chaos. They do not fit in well with the "typical" doctrine of Chaos but tend to be very useful nevertheless and can be the anchors of your fleet that your battleships typically won't be.

Repulsive 230
-A pocket battleship. Has the firepower to match the Retribution class BB, but at shorter range and less durability. Can upgrade its lances and shields to help with both problems somewhat. A bit slow for a Chaos ship. On TT is was one of the best ships for cost.

Retaliator 275
-An all-rounder. Can do many things but in a rather mediocre manner. Jack of all master of none, but it is fairly durable so it'll keep doing those things for a while. Bit slow for a Chaos ship. Its lances have decent range and it has carrier capacity to make up for that a bit.

Executor 210
-A very heavy lance boat. Best when working with something else for a one-two punch. Lacking in range compared to other chaos ships which in combination with its speed can cause trouble.



Heavy Cruisers: Suped up cruisers. Typically based off a basic cruiser with additional long range lance firepower.

Styx 260 (2010 FAQ lowered its cost)
-A heavy carrier with a long range punch. Its firepower on its own isn't that good, but it is host to multitudes of fighters exceeded only by the Emperor and Despoiler BBs.

Hades 200
-A heavy cruiser that has great long range firepower to the front, and enough of a broadside to fight in a brawl.

Acheon 190
- A long range lance boat. Works best with another ship like the Executor.

Hecate 230
-An all-rounder similar to the Retailator. It is faster and has longer range thus fitting into the Chaos fleet better.



Cruisers: The bread and butter of Chaos. Typically they will outperform their Imperial counterparts (and cost less in TT), but are more fragile.

Devastation 190
-The cruiser-class carrier of the chaos fleet. Has long range lances that combined with its strike craft allow it to deal quite a bit of pain from long range.

Murder 170
-Two long range lances to the front and good firepower to the sides.

Carnage 180
-Very heavy long range guns on its broadsides.

Slaughter 165
-A cruiser with the Speed of a escort. Doesn't maneuver as well but great broadside firepower combined with their speed meant that they could be a reserve or trap of sorts bursting into the center of the enemy. Its firepower is short ranged though.

Inferno 180
-Similar to the Lunar in firepower, but exchanges some durability for faster speed and higher firepower.



Escorts: Support Ships. A large amount of them don't usually do well for Chaos, but a squadron or two is always handy.

Idolater 45
-A escort with accurate long range weapon batteries and a lance to back it up. Very good harassers and can close for a kill.

Infidel 40
-The Chaos's Cobra. As fast, tougher and with more guns. Its torpedoes can be quite useful.

Iconoclast 30
-A disposable escort. Weak armor, but decent firepower though not as good as the Imperial's Sword-class. Best as a dirk to a capitals backside or as a screen against ordinance.



Special Ships: Ships that are unlikely to appear either in game entirely or only for special story related missions.

Planet Killer 505
-Basically the heaviest actual ship in the game. Has very scary long range firepower and a potentially earth-shattering gun (literally). Battle usually will revolve around it in some way.

Scion of Prospero 450
-Battle Barge of the Thousand Suns. Massive amount of fighters than is more than even the Emperor and Despoiler's with decent firepower to boot. The warp is so heavy around it that damage can be dealt to any vessel that strays too near.

Wage of Sin 430
-Emperor's Children's Battle Barge. A carrier capacity of a Styx, with much heavier long range firepower and a heavy torpedo spread.

Terminus Est 430
-One of the scariest ships in TT. Absolutely massive lance firepower and fighter capacity matched only by the Scion. Its biggest weakness if both its relatively slow speed and shorter range compared to other Chaos ships.

Conquer 380
-World Eater's Battle Barge. A boarding nightmare with massive close range firepower and speed that can outrun an imperial cruiser despite being a battleship.

Vengeful Spirit 410
-The Black Legion's/basic template battle barge. Can be customized if a template, but basically a slightly upgraded Despoiler.

Blackstone Fortress 750
-Immense range, firepower and durability and ability to move. Very Scary if you actually have to kill it.

Chaos Space Hulk 650
-Similar to the Ork's, but a bit more reliable. Has trouble getting into range but has plenty of firepower when it does and enough durability that it take a long time to kill.

Drakausa
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Re: Chaos Ships and Stuff

Postby Drakausa » 23 February 2016, 23:19

An absolutely excellent post. I can get basic data from a few of the books but I have been depending heavily on Cals posts, especially in the 'roles' and the strength/weaknesses of the ships playability. Your post expands this in a way that, like Cals, improves our vision of the ships we want to have in our Admiralty fleets for each type of campaign, skirmish or PVP scenario.

Now if only someone could post some tactics that they know or remember from the TT, we would all be grateful. In that respect my only contribution, from memory, is having my main ships in line abreast for closing, launching all torpedoes then using heavier prow imperial armor to defend the ship from long range fire. Then all ships making a port or starboard turn to present broadsides in line-of-battle formation. That was the tactic I used to decent effect against Chaos. Mixing variable escorts and ordnance was mostly determined by turn to turn status although I usually like escort squadrons in close then quickly trying to distract the opponents from their tactical efforts. I did love my Escort Squadrons.

Also always tried to have Space Marine Terminators for boarding and getting that extra Teleport. Worth the points. Also using escorts with torpedoes can increase the main ships torp launch prior to close engagement.

Jectulg
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Re: Chaos Ships and Stuff

Postby Jectulg » 24 February 2016, 04:44

The Imperials and Chaos fleets both had flexible ways of play. Orks and Eldar were a bit more limited.

The general or basic idea of Imperials was to close using their heavy frontal armor, launch torps to break up the enemy fleet formation then engage in broadside duels ganging up on a target if at all possible. They typically bought ships with few upgrades and focused on a higher capital ship hull count than the enemy.

This was not always the case. For example due to the effective light cruisers Imperials had there are some strategies that focus on cruiser carrier support and "swarms" of escorts and light cruisers mauling the enemy using their speed to try to focus fire and force vessels to brace for impact or cripple them.

Imperials also had strategies that focused on their Nova Cannons, which were often very powerful. They single handily allowed Imperials to match Chaos long range firepower if used in any numbers. They basically allowed for deathball style Imperial fleets with the nova cannons forcing the enemies to close or die or the nova cannon ship being a detachment that fired upon the enemy as your ships brawled with them. It had some balance issues that I personally hope were fixed.


Chaos was generally a fleet that dragged out the closing phase of the battle, using superior long range lances and weapon batteries and their faster speed. When the time came for the brawling they would try to engage on their own terms and alpha the enemy. Ship for ship they had superior firepower and speed, but they could not take the closing hits imperials could or throw out as much firepower when closing. They often were abeam of the enemy as much as possible. Unlike the Imperials, their escorts were less useful overall.

But again, their strategies were flexible, especially with the Chaos God specific fleets. Khorne would alpha the enemy and board, Slannesh would disrupt the enemy, Tzeetch would play for ordinance domination, and Nurgle would fight more attrition focused fights, but even then Chaos wasn't really limited.


Somewhat unlike the previous fleets, Eldar were somewhat limited. They could not engage in a brawl at all, but they were able to make hit and run attacks while avoiding the worst of retaliation (and they had the speed to). They would focus on picking off certain targets first, usually the ones with longer ranged weapon batteries. They performed very well vs Imperials and Orks, and well vs Chaos although they were somewhat dependent on enemy composition. Usually they had large escort groups with their battleship and focused on lance firepower.


Orks were brawlers that generally focused on boarding and ramming if they could. They had the most hp/hull type and their ships were cheap letting them mob the enemy and overwhelm them in some aspect. Their lack of long range firepower usually meant they were fish in a barrel against eldar, even if they had fighter swarms and bombers would hurt (so fightabomba swarms were recommended). They generally made the most of terrain to shorten lines of fire then used their ability to All Ahead Full to close asap.


Only really Eldar or Orks were limited in their playstyle. Imperials and Chaos could to a more or lesser extent do any type of fleet (especially Chaos) although results were not always guaranteed. I admit I am a bit bias to Chaos (and have a fleet of them).

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CALiGeR190
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Re: Chaos Ships and Stuff

Postby CALiGeR190 » 24 February 2016, 09:32

Jectulg wrote:Might be worth putting a sentence or two to the ships so that those who know little or nothing have a basic idea.



Battleships: Unlike the Imperial variant Chaos BBs tend to support the fleet rather than be the core of it. They aren't the hard rock Imperial BBs are, but can just as easily turn the tides if used right.

Despoiler 400
-Carrier on par with the Emperor-class BB. Faster and uses long range lance weaponry.

Desolator 300
-Very Fast BB able to outrun Imperial cruisers. Nice firepower at long range but can be lacking in a brawl.



Grand Cruisers: The heavy brawlers of Chaos. They do not fit in well with the "typical" doctrine of Chaos but tend to be very useful nevertheless and can be the anchors of your fleet that your battleships typically won't be.

Repulsive 230
-A pocket battleship. Has the firepower to match the Retribution class BB, but at shorter range and less durability. Can upgrade its lances and shields to help with both problems somewhat. A bit slow for a Chaos ship. On TT is was one of the best ships for cost.

Retaliator 275
-An all-rounder. Can do many things but in a rather mediocre manner. Jack of all master of none, but it is fairly durable so it'll keep doing those things for a while. Bit slow for a Chaos ship. Its lances have decent range and it has carrier capacity to make up for that a bit.

Executor 210
-A very heavy lance boat. Best when working with something else for a one-two punch. Lacking in range compared to other chaos ships which in combination with its speed can cause trouble.



Heavy Cruisers: Suped up cruisers. Typically based off a basic cruiser with additional long range lance firepower.

Styx 260 (2010 FAQ lowered its cost)
-A heavy carrier with a long range punch. Its firepower on its own isn't that good, but it is host to multitudes of fighters exceeded only by the Emperor and Despoiler BBs.

Hades 200
-A heavy cruiser that has great long range firepower to the front, and enough of a broadside to fight in a brawl.

Acheon 190
- A long range lance boat. Works best with another ship like the Executor.

Hecate 230
-An all-rounder similar to the Retailator. It is faster and has longer range thus fitting into the Chaos fleet better.



Cruisers: The bread and butter of Chaos. Typically they will outperform their Imperial counterparts (and cost less in TT), but are more fragile.

Devastation 190
-The cruiser-class carrier of the chaos fleet. Has long range lances that combined with its strike craft allow it to deal quite a bit of pain from long range.

Murder 170
-Two long range lances to the front and good firepower to the sides.

Carnage 180
-Very heavy long range guns on its broadsides.

Slaughter 165
-A cruiser with the Speed of a escort. Doesn't maneuver as well but great broadside firepower combined with their speed meant that they could be a reserve or trap of sorts bursting into the center of the enemy. Its firepower is short ranged though.

Inferno 180
-Similar to the Lunar in firepower, but exchanges some durability for faster speed and higher firepower.



Escorts: Support Ships. A large amount of them don't usually do well for Chaos, but a squadron or two is always handy.

Idolater 45
-A escort with accurate long range weapon batteries and a lance to back it up. Very good harassers and can close for a kill.

Infidel 40
-The Chaos's Cobra. As fast, tougher and with more guns. Its torpedoes can be quite useful.

Iconoclast 30
-A disposable escort. Weak armor, but decent firepower though not as good as the Imperial's Sword-class. Best as a dirk to a capitals backside or as a screen against ordinance.



Special Ships: Ships that are unlikely to appear either in game entirely or only for special story related missions.

Planet Killer 505
-Basically the heaviest actual ship in the game. Has very scary long range firepower and a potentially earth-shattering gun (literally). Battle usually will revolve around it in some way.

Scion of Prospero 450
-Battle Barge of the Thousand Suns. Massive amount of fighters than is more than even the Emperor and Despoiler's with decent firepower to boot. The warp is so heavy around it that damage can be dealt to any vessel that strays too near.

Wage of Sin 430
-Emperor's Children's Battle Barge. A carrier capacity of a Styx, with much heavier long range firepower and a heavy torpedo spread.

Terminus Est 430
-One of the scariest ships in TT. Absolutely massive lance firepower and fighter capacity matched only by the Scion. Its biggest weakness if both its relatively slow speed and shorter range compared to other Chaos ships.

Conquer 380
-World Eater's Battle Barge. A boarding nightmare with massive close range firepower and speed that can outrun an imperial cruiser despite being a battleship.

Vengeful Spirit 410
-The Black Legion's/basic template battle barge. Can be customized if a template, but basically a slightly upgraded Despoiler.

Blackstone Fortress 750
-Immense range, firepower and durability and ability to move. Very Scary if you actually have to kill it.

Chaos Space Hulk 650
-Similar to the Ork's, but a bit more reliable. Has trouble getting into range but has plenty of firepower when it does and enough durability that it take a long time to kill.

Vengeful Spirit and Conquer are Gloriana Class Battleships, not Battle Barges, they are ships originally built as 'super Battleships' by the Imperium during the Great Crusade to act as Flagship for Space Marine leigions and their crusade fleets.
Much larger and more dangerous vessels than any battle barge ever could be.
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Jectulg
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Joined: 14 February 2016, 18:50
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Re: Chaos Ships and Stuff

Postby Jectulg » 24 February 2016, 15:00

According to newer fluff yeah. When the Powers of Chaos rule set came out they were not as powerful and rules were given to them accordingly and so I shared the rules they do/did have. I admit I haven't kept up on HH books.


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