Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

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FatMountain
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Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby FatMountain » 23 May 2016, 02:50

Hello folks!

I've read through the forums and watched people playing on youtube, but I still can't decide which cruiser is better fitted to be a 3K range MoN brawler.

The idea is to have 1 brawler to take the heat, either slaughter or carnage, then 1 6k-9k support/brawler to support that ship, then an Acheron and Hellbringer (or Despoiler) for 12K Lances. I want a mostly lance fleet, not a fan of carriers even though I get how great the Styx is.

My reasoning is that a Carnage, despite having a stock 9k range, would be better in 3K. It can take the AP rounds upgrade for it's single macro weapon systems, and given the natural inaccuracy of macros at 6-9K I feel like the Carnage would be wasted at that range. That, plus MoN and all the tanky upgrades would make a mean brawler to cover for the lances. I worry about it's relatively slow speed though, he might be bypassed.

The Slaughter I feel would be better at 6K, or taking the range upgrades for both weapons to go out to 9k. I feel the advantage of Lances is wasted at 3K, and it wouldn't get as much bang for its buck with the AP macro upgrade due to its fewer macros. This one I would do either MoS or MoK(I love Khorne, God forbid I have some fun even it isn't the most effective Mark) and a mix of tanky/lance upgrades.

However, I seem to notice that most people choose the Slaughter for 3K tanky brawling with MoN. It makes me think I'm missing something.

Does this make sense? I'm just looking for your opinions on this. Thanks in advance folks.

MysticForce
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby MysticForce » 23 May 2016, 04:18

It's the speed difference. Slaugher is 225 speed, while Carnage is 188. That's a big difference when you want to keep in range for Nurgle to do it's work - the mark does more damage than your guns, especially if there's more than one ship being hit by the mark.

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Bludfist
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby Bludfist » 23 May 2016, 08:18

MysticForce wrote:It's the speed difference. Slaugher is 225 speed, while Carnage is 188. That's a big difference when you want to keep in range for Nurgle to do it's work - the mark does more damage than your guns, especially if there's more than one ship being hit by the mark.

MoN dosnt stack any more

it says so on the tool tip
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
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MYNAME?
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby MYNAME? » 23 May 2016, 09:17

FatMountain wrote:Hello folks!

I've read through the forums and watched people playing on youtube, but I still can't decide which cruiser is better fitted to be a 3K range MoN brawler.

The idea is to have 1 brawler to take the heat, either slaughter or carnage, then 1 6k-9k support/brawler to support that ship, then an Acheron and Hellbringer (or Despoiler) for 12K Lances. I want a mostly lance fleet, not a fan of carriers even though I get how great the Styx is.

My reasoning is that a Carnage, despite having a stock 9k range, would be better in 3K. It can take the AP rounds upgrade for it's single macro weapon systems, and given the natural inaccuracy of macros at 6-9K I feel like the Carnage would be wasted at that range. That, plus MoN and all the tanky upgrades would make a mean brawler to cover for the lances. I worry about it's relatively slow speed though, he might be bypassed.

The Slaughter I feel would be better at 6K, or taking the range upgrades for both weapons to go out to 9k. I feel the advantage of Lances is wasted at 3K, and it wouldn't get as much bang for its buck with the AP macro upgrade due to its fewer macros. This one I would do either MoS or MoK(I love Khorne, God forbid I have some fun even it isn't the most effective Mark) and a mix of tanky/lance upgrades.

However, I seem to notice that most people choose the Slaughter for 3K tanky brawling with MoN. It makes me think I'm missing something.

Does this make sense? I'm just looking for your opinions on this. Thanks in advance folks.


Slaughter Out shoots the Carnage due to its guns having a higher rate of fire. And its speed allows you to fight enemies on your terms and good for hit and run attacks.

Carnage imo is better off at 9 k range with investing in shields, survivability and accuracy.

I personally would not waste slots on upgrading the slaughters range. Lances on slaughter are set up differently and dont really suffer at close range like acherons lances do. Just invest in shields and the rest of the upgrades I would either invest in maneuverability and belt armor.
Abilities on the slaughters should focus on shields like overshield and rapid shield recharge to keep shields up.

The mark of nurgle was nurfed and doesnt stack anymore. It has great defensive bonuses and if you want to make a 3k brawler it is the go to perk but I prefer a mix of the MoK and slannesh marks. Losing abilities for 30 seconds is kind of a big deal.
3+ lighting strikes on 3 of your slaughters will wreck almost any imperial/ chaos ships engines or generators. And the frenzy troops protect you from boardings. Not as good as nurglez defensive capabilities but khorne is all about critting the shit out of your enemies. Just keep ships at 6 k and fly circles around the enemy or kite around for a minute and come back when your demonic strike is recharged and let the fire rate of your weapons do the rest for you while your acheron or despoiler shoots from afar.

In a 700 point game you can go with 3 slaughters and 2 hellbringers. Very nasty combo. Just make sure your hellbringers stay around 9 k and give both of them slannesh and stasis bombs to help you devide imperial or chaos brawler ships. Just set your strike squads to autocast and micro them if they are in danger and leave your slaughters to tanking while you periodically cast slaneshes promise to piss off players and reload ofted. Those crits evantually add up and take a serious toll on the enemy.

I think they will change how AP ammo will work once the space marines arrive because it will be pointless to play spacemarines when everything turns armor to 25.

MysticForce
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby MysticForce » 23 May 2016, 14:53

Bludfist wrote:
MysticForce wrote:It's the speed difference. Slaugher is 225 speed, while Carnage is 188. That's a big difference when you want to keep in range for Nurgle to do it's work - the mark does more damage than your guns, especially if there's more than one ship being hit by the mark.

MoN dosnt stack any more

it says so on the tool tip


"More than one ship being hit by MoN" does not equal "Multiple MoN hitting one ship".

Kashtano
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby Kashtano » 23 May 2016, 16:57

FatMountain wrote:Hello folks!

I've read through the forums and watched people playing on youtube, but I still can't decide which cruiser is better fitted to be a 3K range MoN brawler.

The idea is to have 1 brawler to take the heat, either slaughter or carnage, then 1 6k-9k support/brawler to support that ship, then an Acheron and Hellbringer (or Despoiler) for 12K Lances. I want a mostly lance fleet, not a fan of carriers even though I get how great the Styx is.

My reasoning is that a Carnage, despite having a stock 9k range, would be better in 3K. It can take the AP rounds upgrade for it's single macro weapon systems, and given the natural inaccuracy of macros at 6-9K I feel like the Carnage would be wasted at that range. That, plus MoN and all the tanky upgrades would make a mean brawler to cover for the lances. I worry about it's relatively slow speed though, he might be bypassed.

The Slaughter I feel would be better at 6K, or taking the range upgrades for both weapons to go out to 9k. I feel the advantage of Lances is wasted at 3K, and it wouldn't get as much bang for its buck with the AP macro upgrade due to its fewer macros. This one I would do either MoS or MoK(I love Khorne, God forbid I have some fun even it isn't the most effective Mark) and a mix of tanky/lance upgrades.

However, I seem to notice that most people choose the Slaughter for 3K tanky brawling with MoN. It makes me think I'm missing something.

Does this make sense? I'm just looking for your opinions on this. Thanks in advance folks.


If 6k range is enough, use the Slaughter. It is not only faster, it also deals more damage, we talk about 5% - 30%, depending on the circumstances (range, enemy armour). AP doesn't matter, the Slaughter can use it too. MYNAME? is right, don't bother with the range upgrades. If you need more than 6k, use a Carnage, which does at 6k-9k roughly the same dps as an Overlord. Still more than enough.

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Imperator5
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby Imperator5 » 24 May 2016, 16:35

Slaughter is faster, and slightly better at long range.
Carnage is better upgrade wise, and better against Elfdar.

Both are nice ships, why not have both?

Murder is pretty much a poopier Carnage, so if you got 1 Carnage, 1 Slaughter, 1 Devastation, you got a ship for every occasion.
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby RedDevilCG » 24 May 2016, 17:33

Why is the Carnage better upgrade wise?

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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby Kashtano » 24 May 2016, 17:44

Imperator5 wrote:Murder is pretty much a poopier Carnage


Even mentioning this ship will invoke the wrath of the Chaos Gods upon you. All of them. At once.

I'm quite curious whether the devs will make something out of it in a chaos balance overhaul.

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Imperator5
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Re: Brawling Cruiser: Carnage VS Slaughter

Postby Imperator5 » 24 May 2016, 18:04

RedDevilCG wrote:Why is the Carnage better upgrade wise?


You don't have to mess around with 2 weapon systems. With AP and Targeting upgrade, you are pretty golden for brawling and as good as you can be against elfdar. The rest of the upgrades can go to survivability.
http://forum.battlefleetgothic-armada.com/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=621

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