Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

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Ars Moriendi
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Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby Ars Moriendi » 14 May 2016, 06:30

Hey guys,

So I actually have two separate questions I'm hoping the Chaos community can help me with.

First of all, with my current Chaos admiral I'm running three Nurgle Slaughters, built to be fast hit and run brawlers, and an Acheron pretty regularly. I'm wondering - what's the best Mark of Chaos to give to the Acheron with this setup? Any thoughts?

Secondly, a couple days ago I was playing 2v2 with a buddy, and we encountered a Chaos player who was running two carrier ships - a Styx and a Hellbringer. We managed to bring down one player on the enemy team, but this carrier player kited us pretty handily and, much to my surprise, used assault boats to effectively strip all of the weapons off of both my ships and my friend's. Lastly he popped the engines on my Chaos ships and it was game over, so we warped out. My first Chaos fleet consisted almost entirely of carriers, and it was pretty fun to play, but I could never get results like that with assault boats (granted I only started playing post release). Does anyone know what kind of build that guy might have been using to make his assault boats so effective?

EDIT: On that note, what upgrades and crew members affect assault boats in the first place? If I put points in my ships' Cultists or Squadron Sergeants will that improve the effectiveness of assault boats?

MYNAME?
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby MYNAME? » 14 May 2016, 06:45

He wasnt running any special setup... If u get reckt by carrier it is brcause you didnt keep your fleet together or played horribly and didnt use screens and silent running. Carrier fleets are awfully easy to counter bro. If your chaos just bring 1 or 2 carriers. If you are imperials you may do the same.
Pro tipç Run a tight formation of ships and whatever ship is getting targeted you activate running silent and unboost for a second. It makes all the squads return to their ord bays because they lose ID. This will give your ship outside their sensor range bomber immunity for a small period of time because when your ship turns into a blip or conceals bombers go back to refuel. They might fix this in a patch but that is how I troll carrier fleets
Last edited by MYNAME? on 14 May 2016, 07:43, edited 1 time in total.

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angelshard
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby angelshard » 14 May 2016, 06:51

Squadron sergeant increases the chance your boats arrive.

Cultists boost troop strength. This is a purely defensive stat. Assault actions are a % chance that is 100-ship troop strength. So a chaos ship with maxed cultists will have
100-69 =31% chance of suffering a critical hit. If it's a boarding action (the one next to lightning strike) each defensive turret on the ship reduces the chance of suffering a crit by 1%.

A nurgle ship with maxed cultists and 11 turrets left is immune to regular boarding action.

Ars Moriendi
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby Ars Moriendi » 14 May 2016, 06:55

Don't get me wrong, by the way, I'm not complaining about assault boats or carriers at all, as thankfully I have a pretty good idea of how to counter carrier spam. Rather, I'm wondering how I can replicate the effectiveness of that guy's assault boats. Whenever I've tried to use assault boats, even on carriers with fully upgraded Squadron Sergeants, their assault attempts seemed to fail 90% of the time and they just generally seemed totally inferior to bombers. If there's a way to make assault boats so effective that you can reliably strip most of the systems off of four ships over the course of a game I want to know what it is, because that just seems like fun. :P

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Bosie
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby Bosie » 14 May 2016, 07:21

Boarding stat upgrades only work for your own defense stat. Assault boats received a large nerf during beta as they were very powerful, now close range boarding is better. The larger the ship the more boarding boats it launches.

I run Slaanesh on my Styix, which is the only carrier I field in my fleet. This is for the silence and the increased chance of causing an enemy ship to jump out, or be faced with the mutiny de-buff.

When I do run my Acheron it has Tzeentch fitted, this is to help it turn back into a red dot so that I can be immune from direct fire weapons and squadrons. Another useful upgrade for it is the additional sensor range, this way you can be hitting the enemy whilst they can't hit you back. If you are worried about squadrons getting through to you the increased turrets are quite a powerful defense especial if you are running fighters from another ship within range.
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Kashtano
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby Kashtano » 14 May 2016, 08:30

Basically, there is no way to raise the effectivity of assault boats beyond slaves/reload and squadron sergeants. They have one assault action per boat and thats it. A Nurgle ship with maxed cultists has 89% resistance to assault boats, so the guy would need some REALLY big luck to cripple such a ship.

Mark of Slaanesh is never a bad idea, but keep in mind its 7.5k range. You'll need to be closer to the enemy than an Acheron wants to be. Mark of Tzeentch can be very effective in trolling people, but MoT ships tend to draw fire (esp. Novas) upon them, so I prefer it on Hellbringers for more mobility (and less pain if lost).

Halstead
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby Halstead » 14 May 2016, 15:01

Fighter screen and placing your lesser ships (like escorts) that have still plenty of defensive turrets in the path of the incoming assault boats (this is one of the two reasons to have +3 extra turrets upgrade, the other reason is adding to troop value against boarding actions).

RedDevilCG
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby RedDevilCG » 14 May 2016, 16:19

Your opponent just got really lucky rolls if his assault boats we're getting crits on your Nurgle ships.

Auzor
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Re: Chaos Favours and Carrier Builds

Postby Auzor » 14 May 2016, 21:29

Ars Moriendi wrote:Hey guys,

So I actually have two separate questions I'm hoping the Chaos community can help me with.

First of all, with my current Chaos admiral I'm running three Nurgle Slaughters, built to be fast hit and run brawlers, and an Acheron pretty regularly. I'm wondering - what's the best Mark of Chaos to give to the Acheron with this setup? Any thoughts?

Secondly, a couple days ago I was playing 2v2 with a buddy, and we encountered a Chaos player who was running two carrier ships - a Styx and a Hellbringer. We managed to bring down one player on the enemy team, but this carrier player kited us pretty handily and, much to my surprise, used assault boats to effectively strip all of the weapons off of both my ships and my friend's. Lastly he popped the engines on my Chaos ships and it was game over, so we warped out. My first Chaos fleet consisted almost entirely of carriers, and it was pretty fun to play, but I could never get results like that with assault boats (granted I only started playing post release). Does anyone know what kind of build that guy might have been using to make his assault boats so effective?

EDIT: On that note, what upgrades and crew members affect assault boats in the first place? If I put points in my ships' Cultists or Squadron Sergeants will that improve the effectiveness of assault boats?


Honestly:
Nurgle is the worst to run assault boats against; +20 troop value on a 60 troop value base ship, for 80% resistance (and 20% succesrate of any assault boats).
Styx & hellbringer: combined, 6 launch bays, 12 assault boats. Now, if -none- are intercepted, (destroyed by turrets), that is 12 assault actions; for 2.4 crits. And then he deals pitifull, if any, damage until ordnance is reloaded.
Now, if none of the assault boats are destroyed.. how about bombers instead?
6 launch bays, 18 bombers total, 30 damage vs 25% armor each. 13.5 hits, for an average of 405 damage.
13.5 hits, with 7.5% crit chance each, for an average of.. 1 crit.
hmm.. would I trade 1.4 "crits" for 405 damage? YES.
If you invest in 9% bonus troop value, even 12 assault boats would deal, on average 12 x 0.11=1.32 crits, btw.
So in theory, now the trade is 0.3 crits, for 405 damage.

How to make assault boats so effective: get lucky.
Improve effectiveness of assault boats: the crew skills that effect it, effect bombers/fighters too.
There is certainly squadron sargeants, and then the +12% reload skill; I believe it works on launch bays too.
Certainly get the upgrade of +20% launch bay reload speed.
Honestly, I could maybe see assault boats vs non-biel-tan Eldar ships; 50 troop value (so 59 max).. not vs Nurgle.


Acheron: you're using slaughters with it; short ranged-ships. in that case, I don't think you'd use Tzeentch "blip" nebula often. YMMV, and Tzeentch does look the coolest.
Slaanesh would work nicely: remove an enemy ships brace for impact for example, also no pesky boost/... Also pretty funny to blow up an escort, and randomly two lineships decide to go "insubordination" (very rare of course; but with two Slaanesh ships in range, the chance of insubordination when destroying a line ship is 50% for example; without crew skills obviously... unlike Nurgle/Tzeentch, Slaanesh stacks pretty well)

Khorne is another option; presuming you are willing to send the ship in close enough for lightning strikes. And the +10 troop value would at least help a bit if you are that unlucky in boarding actions :lol:
With the extra teleport thing upgrade, you do a triple lightning strike. Unlike assault boats, this can't get intercepted.

If instead, you want to have an Acheron to flip from a brawler (Slaughter) to a long ranged fleet (maybe hellbringers, or double Acheron & hellbringers), then Tzeentch on at least 1-2 ships seems very, very usefull.


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