Twin Linked weapons

Share your heretic strategies. Death to the false Emperor!
Lucifronsun
Posts: 406
Joined: 13 March 2016, 01:41
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Lucifronsun » 01 May 2016, 15:32

Psykmoe wrote:I occasionally even see lances specifically called out as being good at stripping shields, at least twice while discussing IN cruisers, which is just puzzling to me. Lance dps is bad. If you're shooting a shield, you give up the biggest strength of the lance - reducing the armor it hits to 25. Well, shields have 0 or 25 armor. Meanwhile macros have theoretically good damage, and shooting a shield at least lets you ignore one big weakness - armor.

I mean I guess chaos lance boats can engage at ranges where they can't rely on their weapon batteries to kill shields, so I was even more confused to see those claims in relation to IN cruisers, where lance ranges aren't so long.

I guess at really long ranges lances are necessarily better at killing shields because they actually hit.

Hell, maybe I'm just bad at math, I'm always open to being corrected.


You've got it all down pat it seems, there's no fault with what you said.

Halstead
Posts: 212
Joined: 23 April 2016, 22:20
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Halstead » 01 May 2016, 16:51

Lucifronsun wrote:
Psykmoe wrote:I occasionally even see lances specifically called out as being good at stripping shields, at least twice while discussing IN cruisers, which is just puzzling to me. Lance dps is bad. If you're shooting a shield, you give up the biggest strength of the lance - reducing the armor it hits to 25. Well, shields have 0 or 25 armor. Meanwhile macros have theoretically good damage, and shooting a shield at least lets you ignore one big weakness - armor.

I mean I guess chaos lance boats can engage at ranges where they can't rely on their weapon batteries to kill shields, so I was even more confused to see those claims in relation to IN cruisers, where lance ranges aren't so long.

I guess at really long ranges lances are necessarily better at killing shields because they actually hit.

Hell, maybe I'm just bad at math, I'm always open to being corrected.


You've got it all down pat it seems, there's no fault with what you said.
Yeah, it's more due to the lance accuracy than to its damage output.

Kashtano
Posts: 71
Joined: 17 April 2016, 18:18
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Kashtano » 01 May 2016, 21:38

Deuzerre wrote:Ok, so math hammer time.

Weapon name - Damage - Number of shots - Rate of fire - Chance to hit at 9K

Slaughter:
Macro turrets - 9 - 3 - 9 - 40%
Macro battery - 3 - 1(x2) - 3 - 40%
Missile pod - 3 - 3 - 10 - 40%
Lances battery - 3 - 1(x2) -3 -100%

So the first macro volley should do ((9x3 + 3x2 + 3x3)/10)x4= (27+6+9)/10x4 = 4,2x4 = 16.8 damage
The first laser volley would do 6 damage

So yeah, macros for sure


Something is wrong here. And its not your math.

I just made the same calculation for the Carnage and noted that the Slaughter does in fact more macro damage than the Carnage. The macro batteries of both ships have the same damage and the same number of attacks, but the Carnage has a slower rate of fire(5). It is hard for me to believe that, especially since the Slaughter's lances are not even counted.

The results become ridiculous when these ships are compared to the Hellbringer Mk2. This light cruiser has two Heavy Macro Turrets and one Lance Battery per broadside, making for a volley damage of 25.6 (Slaughter 22.8, Carnage 16.8). Even if the slower fire rate of the Heavy Macro Turrets is taken into account, the Hellbringer Mk2 would out-dps Battlecruisers like the Hades or the Overlord.

I'm starting to believe that this whole damage calculation thing is somehow off. It is the same with the IN cruisers: in theory, the Gothic should be superior in terms of damage with its always-hit-and-reduce-armor-lances. But it just doesn't feel so when you field one together with a Dominator. Could it be possible that the tooltips are lacking some crucial information that allows us to calculate weapon damage correctly?

Lucifronsun
Posts: 406
Joined: 13 March 2016, 01:41
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Lucifronsun » 01 May 2016, 23:17

Kashtano wrote:Something is wrong here. And its not your math.

I just made the same calculation for the Carnage and noted that the Slaughter does in fact more macro damage than the Carnage. The macro batteries of both ships have the same damage and the same number of attacks, but the Carnage has a slower rate of fire(5). It is hard for me to believe that, especially since the Slaughter's lances are not even counted.

The results become ridiculous when these ships are compared to the Hellbringer Mk2. This light cruiser has two Heavy Macro Turrets and one Lance Battery per broadside, making for a volley damage of 25.6 (Slaughter 22.8, Carnage 16.8). Even if the slower fire rate of the Heavy Macro Turrets is taken into account, the Hellbringer Mk2 would out-dps Battlecruisers like the Hades or the Overlord.

I'm starting to believe that this whole damage calculation thing is somehow off. It is the same with the IN cruisers: in theory, the Gothic should be superior in terms of damage with its always-hit-and-reduce-armor-lances. But it just doesn't feel so when you field one together with a Dominator. Could it be possible that the tooltips are lacking some crucial information that allows us to calculate weapon damage correctly?


Well, first off, the slaughters weapons are still bugged, the full extent of which I'm not sure. Secondly, weapon tooltips are deceiving, if you look on the ship itself, you'll see that weapons have a different number of barrels.

The general rule is that the weapon tooltip is the number to go by for one of those barrels, most weapons don't take this into account. You'll notice that each of the dominators "weapon modules" has 4 barrels on each side of the ship. You can then figure out that it fires 4 shots on a broadside, for a total of 12.

But numbers have been misleading even following this procedure before, which basically means the devs fucked up the tooltip or the weapon, sometimes both.

User avatar
MadDemiurg
Posts: 436
Joined: 27 March 2016, 21:30
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby MadDemiurg » 02 May 2016, 00:19

I think Slaughter tooltips are just bugged for both parts of the battery. In reality it's just carnage macros twin linked with hellbringer mk2 lance battery (they even look the same), making it 7 macro dps and 2 lance dps. Also 3 dps macro turret and 0.9 dps missile pod for a total 12.9 broadside dps for slaughter and 10.9 for carnage not counting armour and accuracy. This also seems to go in line with their in game performance. If slaughter's battery worked as per tooltip it would have 16 dps alone and 19.9 with other weapons, which would be ridiculously OP.

Kashtano
Posts: 71
Joined: 17 April 2016, 18:18
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Kashtano » 02 May 2016, 07:42

Lucifronsun wrote:Well, first off, the slaughters weapons are still bugged, the full extent of which I'm not sure. Secondly, weapon tooltips are deceiving, if you look on the ship itself, you'll see that weapons have a different number of barrels.

The general rule is that the weapon tooltip is the number to go by for one of those barrels, most weapons don't take this into account. You'll notice that each of the dominators "weapon modules" has 4 barrels on each side of the ship. You can then figure out that it fires 4 shots on a broadside, for a total of 12.

But numbers have been misleading even following this procedure before, which basically means the devs fucked up the tooltip or the weapon, sometimes both.


What you say makes sense and it puzzles me that I never saw this fact brought up in other dps-related discussions before. I will take a closer look at the damage of the Slaughter and possible bugs again and see what I can find.

Lucifronsun
Posts: 406
Joined: 13 March 2016, 01:41
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Lucifronsun » 02 May 2016, 10:02

Kashtano wrote:What you say makes sense and it puzzles me that I never saw this fact brought up in other dps-related discussions before. I will take a closer look at the damage of the Slaughter and possible bugs again and see what I can find.


It's been something that everybody just knew, so there was no point for older forum goers to reiterate it. Newer players like yourself wouldn't know that though, so if you see newer players trying to calculate damage without taking "barrels" into account, you might want to pass that on to them as well.

Kashtano
Posts: 71
Joined: 17 April 2016, 18:18
Contact:

Re: Twin Linked weapons

Postby Kashtano » 02 May 2016, 13:54

I took the Slaughter for some combat test runs and found the following values:

TLB/lance part: damage 4, number of attacks 2, rate of fire 8
TLB/macro part: damage 3, number of attacks 4, rate of fire 3
macro turret: damage 9, number of attacks 3, rate of fire 9
missile pod: damage 3, number of attacks 3, rate of fire 9


Return to “Chaos Warfleet”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Google [Bot] and 1 guest