The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby MYNAME? » 28 April 2016, 06:17

wowu56 wrote:Definitely, this crap now is too slow for kiting (especially when the 50 speed upgrade's gone), too fragile to tank and too weak to kill.


Yup chaos battleships have become pretty useless after the 50 speed nurf. They fill out a small neich thats about it. I think they need to give the despoiler and desolator a small speed buff especially the desolator since it cant even brawl anymore with its missing macro capabilities.

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Loveable Rascal » 28 April 2016, 08:48

I'm really hoping for some merged macro batteries or dorsal batteries on this ship and maybe a mobility boost if there is time.

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Sev » 28 April 2016, 11:16

I cant even remember someone fielding it in the TT, the Desolator was utterly helpless against other BBs, it was more an oversized support ship, everyone i know who played Chaos went for the Despoiler
If i wanted to go toe on toe with enemy BBs i used long range lances from the Archeron and went in with a Repulsive Grand Cruiser (especially after the shield buff), if the Chaos had the Repulsive it would sort out a lot of problems.
ATM with this abysmal perfomance the Desolator is not worth taking, and even with a speed boost needs the ship support by another cruiser to get sxxx done. I can have this for less points and without wasting my BB slot.
I was curious how the devswould solve the Desolator problem from the TT but ingame the ship is even worse.

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Lucifronsun » 28 April 2016, 15:24

Veteran chaos player says: Yep, I'd say it currently has the dubious honor of being the worst battleship in the game. It was underwhelming when it had (working) merged batteries, and now that it took a straight nerf, it's even worse.

It literally has the broadside firepower of the acheron, that's absolutely unacceptable, if the retribution had the firepower of a ship below it's class, there'd be such a relentless stream of bitching that the devs would change it nearly on the spot.

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Bludfist » 28 April 2016, 15:33

Lucifronsun wrote: if the retribution had the firepower of a ship below it's class, there'd be such a relentless stream of bitching that the devs would change it nearly on the spot.

pre macro buff didnt the reti have the same broadside dps as the dominiator?
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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Lucifronsun » 28 April 2016, 16:03

Bludfist wrote:
Lucifronsun wrote: if the retribution had the firepower of a ship below it's class, there'd be such a relentless stream of bitching that the devs would change it nearly on the spot.

pre macro buff didnt the reti have the same broadside dps as the dominiator?


No it didn't, remember that while there was tons of crying about how weak it was, nobody went and said it was weaker than the ships below it.

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Imperator5 » 28 April 2016, 16:36

Lucifronsun wrote:
Bludfist wrote:
Lucifronsun wrote: if the retribution had the firepower of a ship below it's class, there'd be such a relentless stream of bitching that the devs would change it nearly on the spot.

pre macro buff didnt the reti have the same broadside dps as the dominiator?


No it didn't, remember that while there was tons of crying about how weak it was, nobody went and said it was weaker than the ships below it.


Desolator performed well when people thought its Macros would be returning. Problem is, they went away for good.
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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Lucifronsun » 28 April 2016, 18:38

Imperator5 wrote:
Lucifronsun wrote:
Bludfist wrote:pre macro buff didnt the reti have the same broadside dps as the dominiator?


No it didn't, remember that while there was tons of crying about how weak it was, nobody went and said it was weaker than the ships below it.


Desolator performed well when people thought its Macros would be returning. Problem is, they went away for good.


I dunno what you would describe as performing well, but people were complaining about it off the bat. First it was about the hybrid nature of its guns, then it was the effectiveness of the guns on a lance boat, and then the macro part of the guns went missing for the rest of the beta, which is when the cry train picked up speed.

The macros didn't actually do anything at optimal lancing range, and cost you an upgrade if you wanted it to do slightly less nothing. As a lance boat, it's been sitting at it's current powerlevel for awhile now.

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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Imperator5 » 28 April 2016, 18:44

Lucifronsun wrote:
Imperator5 wrote:
Lucifronsun wrote:
No it didn't, remember that while there was tons of crying about how weak it was, nobody went and said it was weaker than the ships below it.


Desolator performed well when people thought its Macros would be returning. Problem is, they went away for good.


I dunno what you would describe as performing well, but people were complaining about it off the bat. First it was about the hybrid nature of its guns, then it was the effectiveness of the guns on a lance boat, and then the macro part of the guns went missing for the rest of the beta, which is when the cry train picked up speed.

The macros didn't actually do anything at optimal lancing range, and cost you an upgrade if you wanted it to do slightly less nothing. As a lance boat, it's been sitting at it's current powerlevel for awhile now.


You are right, and the macros were bugged for most of the time. People just honestly thought that they would be "un-bugged" and not "removed entirely" .

Were the macros working, it would have outdone Emperor and Retribution in a close up broadside while still remaining better at range due to lances.

But yeah Hybrid weapons are another problem entirely. Or rather, the fact that the range upgrade is separate for lances and macros is a problem.
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Re: The Desolater post release; is it underwhelming?

Postby Psykmoe » 28 April 2016, 19:44

Bludfist wrote:
Lucifronsun wrote: if the retribution had the firepower of a ship below it's class, there'd be such a relentless stream of bitching that the devs would change it nearly on the spot.

pre macro buff didnt the reti have the same broadside dps as the dominiator?


In terms of macros, yes. Dominator is 2x18 damage batteries per broadside, Retri was 3x12 for the same damage but double the range.

Now of course the Retri's broadside is 3x15 damage post-plasma macro buff, and it always had those 3 dorsal lance turrets so it technically always did a little more damage than a Dominator at the same range.

On the other hand, if you wanted to actually use the Retri's range advantage over the Dominator, the current macro implementation was a big hurdle. Yeah, all the Retri's guns have 12k base range while the Dominator only gets 6k - but if you actually fight at 12k, the Retri's broadside is kind of questionable again, only the dorsal lances are reliable at that range.

It's always easy to compare lance boats - Desolator has about the same lance damage as the Acheron, both have questionably useful dorsal weapon batteries you don't care about at 12-15k, and those lances do the same damage at any range.

However, the Retribution was always a straight upgrade to the Overlord - more broadside power, extra dorsal lances, more torpedoes, same speed, turns a little worse. (of course this was easy to do since the Overlord has weaker broadsides than a Tyrant or Dominator).

Meanwhile the Desolator was in the past a budget battleship with the speed of a Chaos cruiser/Acheron, and it doesn't even have that, now. A Retribution with Mezoa engine is faster than the Desi which just doesn't feel right.


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