Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

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torgen
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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby torgen » 22 June 2016, 14:54

Hi,
to come back to matter of the topic. As chaos highly depends on lances and carriers I would like to see some sort of uprgrades for those things. For example:
Lances, upgrade for a slight increase of damage or a buff for the rate of fire.
Carrier, upgrade for an extra fighter/bomber per bay or reinforced crafts that are harder to counter

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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby MYNAME? » 24 June 2016, 07:57

torgen wrote:Hi,
to come back to matter of the topic. As chaos highly depends on lances and carriers I would like to see some sort of uprgrades for those things. For example:
Lances, upgrade for a slight increase of damage or a buff for the rate of fire.
Carrier, upgrade for an extra fighter/bomber per bay or reinforced crafts that are harder to counter


I think chaos lances need a small damage buff. They need to endless kite for lance to be worth it. Bombers could need a buff because they are really really easy to hardcounter. But than again this punishes carrier spammers for going full carriers. I feel like you can achieve way more with a mix of lance and carriers than going full carrier.

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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby ErikModi » 24 June 2016, 14:27

For missile pods: the only difference between them and regular macros is the homing, so the enemy can't dodge the shot after it's been fired, which was something impossible to do on the tabletop. So missile pods actually behave MORE like a tabletop weapon than the current macros, in that if you roll a hit when you fire the weapon, the weapon WILL hit. So no, I have no problem with them not being "from the tabletop."

In my experience from the tabletop, Chaos ships were just as good at brawling as they were at sniping. The only disadvantage they have compared to Imperial ships is lacking the armored prow, which isn't that much of a bonus. If you can deny your enemy Closing shots, it doesn't come into play at all. And even if you can't, you're only marginally more likely to take damage than an Imperial ship in the same situation. Lances are great for dealing some amount of damage to heavily armored ships, but they just don't deal enough damage to get reliable kills unless you're really ganging up with three or four of them. Weapons batteries are still where the main damage comes from, and those suffer from range modifiers. This can easily be mitigated in Armada with the Accuracy upgrade, but in tabletop, you were usually better off getting within 30cm (or 15 if you were feeling really salty) and unleashing your best guns to try and get as many hits as possible. Gun deck ships like the Repulsive, Hades, and Murder were great for an opening salvo to weaken an enemy ship, while lance boats were good for finishing them off or scoring a few extra damage points to Cripple them.

And the Slaughters were just insane. 5cm faster than other Chaos ships (10cm faster than Imperial ships!) with 14 Firepower broadsides (8 Port and Starboard, 6 Prow, which could combine with either left or right in any given turn) and 2 strength lances. Two of those working together could chew up just about any other single ship that crossed their path, and their main limitation - 30cm range on all their weapons - I actually consider a bonus, since they'll never suffer a column-shift to weapons for range, and their extra speed makes it really easy for them to swoop in, wreck face, and fly away before your opponent can likely maneuver to return the favor. And if you can dart them within 15cm, you get a left-column shift, making your weapons even stronger. In Armada, however, the Slaughter seems very underwhelming. It doesn't play like the fast-attack, hit-and-fade ship it could be on the tabletop, it doesn't feel like it's the wolf slashing at the herd to separate out a weak kill. They way Slaughters worked on tabletop (or, at least they way they work for me) they're great for two things: either disrupting the enemy fleet, taking out a key part of their formation en passant and burning away, leaving the opponent confused and disorganized for your main force, or circling the fringes of a brawl-style engagement, picking off attempts to flank your other ships and generally giving you huge amount of battlefield control with sudden, devastating bursts of firepower. They are the perfect Chaos vessel, sowing chaos, confusion, and despair among the enemy. They need to be able to be this in Armada, as well.

The Repulsive needs to be in the game somehow, somewhere. Personally, I'd remove one or two Light Cruiser slots from Chaos and add a Grand Cruiser slot for the Repulsive. It's the only other Blue Book Chaos ship that has Torpedoes (which I'm personally not a fan of on Tabletop, but that's just me) and has nightmarish 14 firepower weapons broadsides and respectable 3 strength dorsal Lances. The Lances are short-ranged (30cm, 6k in Armada if I recall) meaning it has to get pretty close, but it's another brawling ship that could support Hades, Murders, and Slaughters. A nice way to surprise someone expecting another long-ranged, beam/carrier/stealth spam Chaos fleet, when those massive gun decks burn hard towards them and proceed to ruin their day.

In tabletop, I always played my Chaos fleet as brawling, mixing it up with the Imperials at shorter ranges. While closing, I had the advantage of longer range to take some hits off them before they could retaliate, but when it came time to do serious damage, it's always get in close for maximum column shifts and shoot heavy and hard, focusing on one ship at a time and bringing it down fast. Chaos being reduced to stealth snipers just doesn't feel right to me here (due in no small part to the fact that there's no stealth in space).

And yes, the Desolator sorely needs some love. At the very least, make its speed match other Chaos ships, true to its tabletop stats. Otherwise, it's just a ponderous, undergunned battleship, outclassed by everything else in its category.

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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby Ravensburg » 24 June 2016, 15:30

ErikModi wrote:And yes, the Desolator sorely needs some love. At the very least, make its speed match other Chaos ships, true to its tabletop stats. Otherwise, it's just a ponderous, undergunned battleship, outclassed by everything else in its category.


We don't get this. The desolator currently have the same speed as in the TT. In which version of the rule did you see that the Desolator has more than 20cm speed?

EDIT: Ok after some check. There's a typo in the french version of the BFG bluebook, the desolator only get 20 cm speed. After checking the English version it appears your right!

You will have to wait for the next patch to get this fix. Mystery solved.

Thanks,

Ravensburg

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Cryhavok
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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby Cryhavok » 24 June 2016, 15:42

Ravensburg wrote:
ErikModi wrote:And yes, the Desolator sorely needs some love. At the very least, make its speed match other Chaos ships, true to its tabletop stats. Otherwise, it's just a ponderous, undergunned battleship, outclassed by everything else in its category.


We don't get this. The desolator currently have the same speed as in the TT. In which version of the rule did you see that the Desolator has more than 20cm speed?

EDIT: Ok after some check. There's a typo in the french version of the BFG bluebook, the desolator only get 20 cm speed. After checking the English version it appears your right!

You will have to wait for the next patch to get this fix. Mystery solved.

Thanks,

Ravensburg


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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby Bludfist » 24 June 2016, 15:47

Ravensburg wrote:EDIT: Ok after some check. There's a typo in the french version of the BFG bluebook, the desolator only get 20 cm speed. After checking the English version it appears your right!

You will have to wait for the next patch to get this fix. Mystery solved.

Thanks,

Ravensburg

See i always wondered why there was a deviation of speed stats from TT here, now i know why, what will the new speed be ingame?

Many of here would also like it if the missle pods on the ship were replaced with dorsal lance turrents even if it ment a reduction in broadside lance turrents.
Besides that the only thing that many of wish to see is the carnages/murders prow lance changed to dorsal configuration.

Prow lances do not complement nor really work in chaos's "parallel kiting" playstyle.

Besides that and grand cruisers i dont feel the faction needs anything else because they are the strongest faction in the game imho
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Ahzek Ahriman
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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby Ahzek Ahriman » 24 June 2016, 20:38

Bludfist wrote:
Ravensburg wrote:EDIT: Ok after some check. There's a typo in the french version of the BFG bluebook, the desolator only get 20 cm speed. After checking the English version it appears your right!

You will have to wait for the next patch to get this fix. Mystery solved.

Thanks,

Ravensburg

See i always wondered why there was a deviation of speed stats from TT here, now i know why, what will the new speed be ingame?

Many of here would also like it if the missle pods on the ship were replaced with dorsal lance turrents even if it ment a reduction in broadside lance turrents.
Besides that the only thing that many of wish to see is the carnages/murders prow lance changed to dorsal configuration.

Prow lances do not complement nor really work in chaos's "parallel kiting" playstyle.

Besides that and grand cruisers i dont feel the faction needs anything else because they are the strongest faction in the game imho


Yup, exactly. But I think you meant "Hades", not "Carnage", Carnage is one of two chaos ships that do not have lances whatsoever.
And include Despoiler, right now it's only good for tanking really. I found it's lack of cruiser speed (which is no problem as opposed to Deso), can be made up for with combustion gauge refilling skill, but still its prow lance is useless for most of the game.

For the very same reason Hades and Murder are obsolete to say the least.
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Bludfist
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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby Bludfist » 24 June 2016, 20:47

yeah i meant Hades, my mistake
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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby Sindrey » 25 June 2016, 14:32

Ravensburg wrote:
ErikModi wrote:And yes, the Desolator sorely needs some love. At the very least, make its speed match other Chaos ships, true to its tabletop stats. Otherwise, it's just a ponderous, undergunned battleship, outclassed by everything else in its category.


We don't get this. The desolator currently have the same speed as in the TT. In which version of the rule did you see that the Desolator has more than 20cm speed?

EDIT: Ok after some check. There's a typo in the french version of the BFG bluebook, the desolator only get 20 cm speed. After checking the English version it appears your right!

You will have to wait for the next patch to get this fix. Mystery solved.

Thanks,

Ravensburg


Now I'm curious. How many typos the french translation still has.

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Re: Things we would like to see when chaos gets balance patch (buffs/nurfs)

Postby RedDevilCG » 26 June 2016, 18:17

Ravensburg wrote:
ErikModi wrote:And yes, the Desolator sorely needs some love. At the very least, make its speed match other Chaos ships, true to its tabletop stats. Otherwise, it's just a ponderous, undergunned battleship, outclassed by everything else in its category.


We don't get this. The desolator currently have the same speed as in the TT. In which version of the rule did you see that the Desolator has more than 20cm speed?

EDIT: Ok after some check. There's a typo in the french version of the BFG bluebook, the desolator only get 20 cm speed. After checking the English version it appears your right!

You will have to wait for the next patch to get this fix. Mystery solved.

Thanks,

Ravensburg
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