Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

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Psykmoe
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Psykmoe » 06 May 2016, 09:06

Marwynn wrote:Swords work until the Ork player decides he'd like to smash through them. Having a bunch of Swords on broadsides/3K means they're circling about but they can be swept aside by a bunch of Bashas. That's the Firestorm's strength, not the damage output but the survivability at range.


Yeah, but what use does that survivability have? Two Firestorms cost what, 16 points less than a Light Kroozer with megakannon, and those Firestorms need something like a minute of continuous lance fire just to shave off those 100 bonus hitpoints a light kroozer has over a Dauntless?

Swords are extremely fragile around orkz, but Firestorms are basically ignorable. If you try to fit Swords for 9k range to keep them out of danger, they're basically worthless too.

It takes 3 Firestorms to match the firepower of a Dauntless prow lance, which combined cost 20 points more to field than that Dauntless, which is just as fast and brings line ship perks like having a favor and more upgrades and experienced crew. If you invest the upgrades that way, a Dauntless can turn just like a Firestorm while going faster :lol:

Bottom line, escorts just bring really poor damage for their point value versus orkz, either because they get swatted so easy in close range or because they're Firestorms (Idolators have the same problem - their lance has different damage/refire rate but ends up with the same garbage 60 dpm before armor is considered).

Unless you have a really specific gimmick in mind or need them for your approach to a mission type, avoid escorts, if you can. Orkz already have a hit point advantage without you bringing over-costed escort based damage output.

At least on cruisers, having lances makes the ship cheaper (Gothic/Lunar compared to Tyrant/Dictator).
Last edited by Psykmoe on 06 May 2016, 11:17, edited 2 times in total.

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MadDemiurg
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby MadDemiurg » 06 May 2016, 09:18

I find torp ships working very well against orks if you can aim torps well. Basically as many torps as you can bring with Induction Coils on all ships. Orks can't really dodge them because of poor maneuverability and focus fire can be really painful. Problem is, this setup doesn't work as well in other MUs.

Formosa
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Formosa » 06 May 2016, 11:09

I'm having a lot of wins vs orks now, I use only carriers vs them now, extra sensors on all ships for longer range mwj, I'm thinking of adding taunt to my build to drag out ships from there fleet, even the stasis bomb and tracktor cannons are not getting close at the moment.

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angelshard
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby angelshard » 06 May 2016, 11:14

How does it work against other factions?

Formosa
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Formosa » 06 May 2016, 13:13

angelshard wrote:How does it work against other factions?


it doesn't vs elder, but I don't play them until fixed anyway, for imperials I go boarding unless they are space marine or have a high value, target guns first of all, chaos, even against a carrier fleet, clever use of skills and fighter screens stops them with the long range game, torpedoes and nova also help with long range, oddly a kite chaos fleet is the easiest match up for me so far, I want them at long range, if they get close I can out brawl them, assault pods also help gimp any lance advantage they have, and if they split up, even better, focus down whatever the nearest ship is.

Ill keep practicing with this fleet, but so far its the best jack of all trades ive found, doesn't mean it will work for everyone though, I simply suck at the brawl part of this game, so long range carrier is my preferred style of play.

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Marwynn
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Marwynn » 06 May 2016, 14:25

Psykmoe wrote:
Marwynn wrote:Swords work until the Ork player decides he'd like to smash through them. Having a bunch of Swords on broadsides/3K means they're circling about but they can be swept aside by a bunch of Bashas. That's the Firestorm's strength, not the damage output but the survivability at range.


Yeah, but what use does that survivability have? Two Firestorms cost what, 16 points less than a Light Kroozer with megakannon, and those Firestorms need something like a minute of continuous lance fire just to shave off those 100 bonus hitpoints a light kroozer has over a Dauntless?

Swords are extremely fragile around orkz, but Firestorms are basically ignorable. If you try to fit Swords for 9k range to keep them out of danger, they're basically worthless too.

It takes 3 Firestorms to match the firepower of a Dauntless prow lance, which combined cost 20 points more to field than that Dauntless, which is just as fast and brings line ship perks like having a favor and more upgrades and experienced crew. If you invest the upgrades that way, a Dauntless can turn just like a Firestorm while going faster :lol:

Bottom line, escorts just bring really poor damage for their point value versus orkz, either because they get swatted so easy in close range or because they're Firestorms (Idolators have the same problem - their lance has different damage/refire rate but ends up with the same garbage 60 dpm before armor is considered).

Unless you have a really specific gimmick in mind or need them for your approach to a mission type, avoid escorts, if you can. Orkz already have a hit point advantage without you bringing over-costed escort based damage output.

At least on cruisers, having lances makes the ship cheaper (Gothic/Lunar compared to Tyrant/Dictator).


I thought it was a given that taking Escorts against Orks wasn't the most optimal thing to do? Most take them not because they want to beat the Ork player but rather survive the encounter and inflict some damage while doing so, earning some renown perhaps. As in recovery fleet lists where you field 1-2 Dauntlesses and as many Escorts as you can. You don't take 2-3, you take 6-9.

Last night, after a disastrous attempt with my IN carrier fleet, I took 2 Dauntlesses and 9 Firestorms, unupgraded, against an Ork player. Kept the Dauntlesses at 6k, broadsides, turning just to fire every once in a while, along with the Firestorms who were prow on at 6k and nailed a Basha, causing it to flee which chained to most of his ships. Liberal use of high energy turns to keep the Firestorms away meant he couldn't ram them. But he took down 3 Firestorms with his torpedoes and bombers.

The damage does stack up. It's admittedly a lot less than a light cruiser, and maybe with that many Escorts, Cobras could actually do something with their torps instead.

It's not the go-to tactic, but you can survive fights with them and sometimes even win. Swords probably would've been better in that situation, they may have been close enough to block the torps before they were armed. Probably a lot more damage as a result too.

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Maye
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Maye » 08 May 2016, 12:45

Marwynn wrote:...


The dauntless + sword spam works great if the orks doesn't use chained sqwigs, you set the firestorm at 3k range broadside and aim for the weapons with the dauntless at 6k supporting + torping when they can, if you die well it cost you 2 dauntless to rep and if you win you can come here and boast. :mrgreen:

Halstead
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Halstead » 08 May 2016, 14:59

Maye wrote:
Marwynn wrote:...


The dauntless + sword spam works great if the orks doesn't use chained sqwigs, you set the firestorm at 3k range broadside and aim for the weapons with the dauntless at 6k supporting + torping when they can, if you die well it cost you 2 dauntless to rep and if you win you can come here and boast. :mrgreen:
And if you use Adept Mech favour on the dauntless, they cost only 12 renown each to repair and be ready to go out again.

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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby MYNAME? » 24 May 2016, 21:35

Maye wrote:
eQ sassyljay wrote:...



I might be wrong, I just read the in game tooltip, so if it doesn't reduce more than 25 armor, you still need it to kill everything that is not showing their rear, but still being behind an ork is the best way to stay alive. :mrgreen:


AP ammo only works if you are within 3 k.

It reduces armor to a flat 25% if you are within 3 k.

MYNAME?
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby MYNAME? » 24 May 2016, 21:36

Maye wrote:
Marwynn wrote:...


The dauntless + sword spam works great if the orks doesn't use chained sqwigs, you set the firestorm at 3k range broadside and aim for the weapons with the dauntless at 6k supporting + torping when they can, if you die well it cost you 2 dauntless to rep and if you win you can come here and boast. :mrgreen:


Pro orks never leave the house without squigs.

You would be better off using firestorms so you can shoot from 9 k and have dauntlesses shoot from afar like ye said. But your strategy could work. Its cheap and you dont have to worry about winning or losing which the latter is less likely


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