Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

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Lihkan
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Lihkan » 28 April 2016, 19:47

Marwynn wrote:300 points?

Dual Lunars fitted for ramming. This is tank and speed based, skills would be the various bombs. Set these guys to 3k.
Tyrant and Gothic pairing. Gothic has ranged lances for shield busting, Tyrant has range, accuracy, and AP. 9k for both of these guys.

Learn to love torps too. They'll find a way to get to you and up close, if you have maneuvering room that is, you can deal surprising amounts of damage.


This is pretty much my current setup, and I get raped brutally everytime (works great on other races though)

Psykmoe
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Psykmoe » 28 April 2016, 20:00

Marwynn wrote: Gothic has ranged lances for shield busting


I keep seeing people mention lances for taking down shields, but why?

Shields have no armor, or at most, 25 if you're shooting an IN ship with Voss shields.

IN lances have pretty lengthy refire rates, their theoretical top damage output is low, but consistent because they treat armor as 25 and don't miss.

If you're shooting them at shields, their big advantage (armor piercing) doesn't matter, while their disadvantage (low total damage) is especially tedious when you're trying to strip a high hitpoint shield on a battleship.

Macros on the other hand have higher theoretical damage but take cuts to that because of armor mechanics. Shields have no, or barely any armor, so I generally see macros do way more damage to shields than to hull.

Especially at the mediocre IN lance ranges, a volley of macro fire tends to destroy shields much quicker than lances, in my experience.

Plus, most IN fleets have so many macro cannons in them, it kind of feels like a waste to use an upgrade slot to buff lances against shields.

Now for Chaos, where you can field lances with upgraded 15k range, that's where I'll generally invest in the shield damage upgrade, because at those ranges, macros have trouble hitting enough to strip shields due to accuracy.

yamato2cz
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby yamato2cz » 28 April 2016, 20:25

Marwynn wrote:While I love Swords I've begun to use Firestorms instead against Orkz. Half my DPS doesn't care about facing and will always hit and I don't have to close to 3k where 'Orkz is best' is kinda true. And my Firestorms are unupgraded, so with the range upgrade I can stay safely at 9k for half DPS to poke and prod the greenskins. Extra shields and maybe shield damage too would be fine.

My experience hasn't been with 2v2s though.

i find swords with range, accuracy, AP upgrades very VERY effective against anything, shreding eldar and orks to pieces. and i dont really care about angle of ship because cannons can fire 270 degrees. horrible small assholes these swords.

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Marwynn
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Marwynn » 28 April 2016, 20:39

yamato2cz wrote:
Marwynn wrote:While I love Swords I've begun to use Firestorms instead against Orkz. Half my DPS doesn't care about facing and will always hit and I don't have to close to 3k where 'Orkz is best' is kinda true. And my Firestorms are unupgraded, so with the range upgrade I can stay safely at 9k for half DPS to poke and prod the greenskins. Extra shields and maybe shield damage too would be fine.

My experience hasn't been with 2v2s though.

i find swords with range, accuracy, AP upgrades very VERY effective against anything, shreding eldar and orks to pieces. and i dont really care about angle of ship because cannons can fire 270 degrees. horrible small assholes these swords.



Yes, they really are. And people still seem to ignore Swords for whatever reason. I gave mine bonus shields instead of accuracy, they're okay at 9k accuracy wise and I have them set to close to 3k anyway.

Lihkan wrote:
Marwynn wrote:300 points?

Dual Lunars fitted for ramming. This is tank and speed based, skills would be the various bombs. Set these guys to 3k.
Tyrant and Gothic pairing. Gothic has ranged lances for shield busting, Tyrant has range, accuracy, and AP. 9k for both of these guys.

Learn to love torps too. They'll find a way to get to you and up close, if you have maneuvering room that is, you can deal surprising amounts of damage.


This is pretty much my current setup, and I get raped brutally everytime (works great on other races though)


Then it's time to bring the Swords out my friend.

yamato2cz
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby yamato2cz » 28 April 2016, 20:45

Marwynn wrote:
yamato2cz wrote:
Marwynn wrote:While I love Swords I've begun to use Firestorms instead against Orkz. Half my DPS doesn't care about facing and will always hit and I don't have to close to 3k where 'Orkz is best' is kinda true. And my Firestorms are unupgraded, so with the range upgrade I can stay safely at 9k for half DPS to poke and prod the greenskins. Extra shields and maybe shield damage too would be fine.

My experience hasn't been with 2v2s though.

i find swords with range, accuracy, AP upgrades very VERY effective against anything, shreding eldar and orks to pieces. and i dont really care about angle of ship because cannons can fire 270 degrees. horrible small assholes these swords.



Yes, they really are. And people still seem to ignore Swords for whatever reason. I gave mine bonus shields instead of accuracy, they're okay at 9k accuracy wise and I have them set to close to 3k anyway.

i tend to set them for 9k, because in close range they get in way of my capitals, either running from enemy, or ramming an enemy. poor little guys, cant take two rams or salvo of torps from emperor.

and even at 9k, with acc upgrade, they hit 1-2 from 4 shots, and given they have so high rate of fire, it doesnt even matter. its just good continual damage that players and AI mostly ignore, yet in fact about half the damage i do is from swords. and they can soak up big damage in some cases. and they shred torpedoes and fighters too. flying swiss army knifes.

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Marwynn
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Marwynn » 28 April 2016, 21:07

yamato2cz wrote:i tend to set them for 9k, because in close range they get in way of my capitals, either running from enemy, or ramming an enemy. poor little guys, cant take two rams or salvo of torps from emperor.

and even at 9k, with acc upgrade, they hit 1-2 from 4 shots, and given they have so high rate of fire, it doesnt even matter. its just good continual damage that players and AI mostly ignore, yet in fact about half the damage i do is from swords. and they can soak up big damage in some cases. and they shred torpedoes and fighters too. flying swiss army knifes.


I'll have to try that. I leave them at 3k to pin the enemy a bit and have my bigger ships at 6-9k. I haven't lost that many Swords either. People just don't prioritize them, I feel. Plus, you know, AP.

Myridus
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Myridus » 29 April 2016, 00:21

Go with range/speed upgrades. You'll never out brawl them. You have next to no advantages there.

More efficient gauge usage, bonus range on macros, belt armor are the upgrades to look at. Plus these are always useful, so it's not like it's only good vs orks. These all help.

Also, i find Torps way better than lances vs orks. Since they're so slow and sluggish, they won't dodge them if you place them right. Remember that if they do dodge them by turning, they're losing distance which allows you longer time to shoot at them. Start with meltas to pop their repairs, then switch to standard.

If u play the torp screen/kiting game long enough you'll gain an advantage. That's how I've always dealt with them and have had good success with it. It may be annoying to play Imps like Chaos, but that's what u gotta do. Adapt and survive.

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Maye
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Maye » 29 April 2016, 14:24

So I have been doing some testing this morning,

I don't like firestorm against orks, they lack dps and a competent player will kill them fast enough to survive, since I mostly field 2 dauntless(es, can I write that ?), I don't have a lot of dps, but I did field swords, with armor piercing ammo, extra range on macro and extra hull, well, those guys are borderline broken, the orks just melt, you field 9 of this badass and the greens just die.

So for me it's sword all the way.

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Kine²
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Kine² » 29 April 2016, 14:38

As an Ork player, I love seeing mass escorts. Less aiming needed to ram them off the map. That said, it is a decent counter at low point matches but as ships get bigger, escorts pose lesser of a threat.
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Maye
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Maye » 29 April 2016, 14:53

Kine² wrote:As an Ork player, I love seeing mass escorts. Less aiming needed to ram them off the map. That said, it is a decent counter at low point matches but as ships get bigger, escorts pose lesser of a threat.


no they don't, I just won 3 games at 700 points with that, focus orks escorts then the lower hp line ships, enjoy the insubordination. if the imp player do a nice snowball yes he deserves to be rammed to death, but by little groups they are fine. When I say escort spam I mean 9 to 12 swords, you will not have enough ship to ram that in time.


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