Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

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Psykmoe
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Psykmoe » 29 April 2016, 14:58

Not to mention that Swords set to broadside fire will actually move around to orbit targets. It's Firestorms set to forward that are easy ramming targets unless you micro them, because they'll just sit there and not move once they're in firing range for the lance.

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Marwynn
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Marwynn » 29 April 2016, 15:07

I'm a Sword user, but if you want to use Firestorms you have them at 6-9k, if you upgraded the range. And usually you mix it up with Swords.

But Swords on their own are tough ships. To the point where I only take out Firestorms for the lolz.

aprg
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby aprg » 05 May 2016, 00:52

Marwynn wrote:I'm a Sword user, but if you want to use Firestorms you have them at 6-9k, if you upgraded the range. And usually you mix it up with Swords.

But Swords on their own are tough ships. To the point where I only take out Firestorms for the lolz.


I think when it comes to Swords vs Firestorms, it pays to consider upgrading to face different fleets.

My Swords I decided to spec vs. Eldar: more ranged macro fire, and more sensors to spot the Eldar.

My Firestorms I spec vs. Orks: better lance range and better speed (Gauge efficiency upgrade) being the most important.

Psykmoe
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Psykmoe » 05 May 2016, 08:53

The biggest problem with the Firestorm is simply that the lance does extremely poor damage, so you end up with a 1 dps weapon - 60 damage per minute, before you consider that 25% of your shots still get blocked by armor. That's frankly garbage for the cost, especially if you field them against orkz who all have 100 extra hull points on their line ships. And if you upgrade the whole ship to 9k range with all weapons, macros don't help that much at 9k.

A Sword fighting at 3k is more vulnerable, of course, but it'll also contribute more.

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Felhammer
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Felhammer » 05 May 2016, 09:07

Lost a fight to an Ork player recently but that's because I ignored his escorts. Oops. Orks are kitable like most races in the game if you cause crit dmg to engines. So if you're back hitting an ork ship target the engine subsystem then laugh while you go long range and crush them.

Orks rear armour is your best point to aim for. But as many people have already stated stay at range to avoid being roflrammed by them and it's happy dayz.

aprg
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby aprg » 05 May 2016, 15:55

Psykmoe wrote:The biggest problem with the Firestorm is simply that the lance does extremely poor damage, so you end up with a 1 dps weapon - 60 damage per minute, before you consider that 25% of your shots still get blocked by armor. That's frankly garbage for the cost, especially if you field them against orkz who all have 100 extra hull points on their line ships. And if you upgrade the whole ship to 9k range with all weapons, macros don't help that much at 9k.

A Sword fighting at 3k is more vulnerable, of course, but it'll also contribute more.


One point: I'm fairly sure both the Light Macro Turret and the Lance have the same base DPS; the turret is also 1 DPS, it just has better facing. I'll check when I get home, but I recall checking and double-checking this.

The Sword's main advantage is that Macro Upgrades affect all its weapons, so are twice as effective as on the Firestorm. That means 2 DPS armour piercing at 3K when you get the AP upgrade.

Now, I really do like the Sword, and in a perfect world, you could have one Sword design spec'd vs Eldar and one Sword design spec'd vs Orks -- but you don't have that option. And the AP upgrade is pretty much a waste against Eldar (the only thing it cancels out is the Wraithbone Prow).

Thus, I think you're underselling the Firestorm vs. Orks. Admittedly I'm biased because I don't want to engage Orks at 3K even with Escorts.

But I'll recheck the numbers when I get home.

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angelshard
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby angelshard » 05 May 2016, 16:41

Ram their rear, it works very well

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Deuzerre
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Deuzerre » 05 May 2016, 17:03

For your ships that go close, always be ready to use the order that reduces the damage you take.
"Common sense isn't as common as the name would imply"

Halstead
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Halstead » 05 May 2016, 23:05

Psykmoe wrote:The biggest problem with the Firestorm is simply that the lance does extremely poor damage, so you end up with a 1 dps weapon - 60 damage per minute, before you consider that 25% of your shots still get blocked by armor. That's frankly garbage for the cost, especially if you field them against orkz who all have 100 extra hull points on their line ships. And if you upgrade the whole ship to 9k range with all weapons, macros don't help that much at 9k.

A Sword fighting at 3k is more vulnerable, of course, but it'll also contribute more.
Well you also need to get AP upgrade for the Macro to be able set the armor to 25% (that work only inside 3km) just like the lance. That's not something I would want to throw in against Orkz especially since at such close quarter the orkz are just going to ram their way through the swords if you're not managing their maneuvering.

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Marwynn
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Re: Counter-Ork refit: advice needed

Postby Marwynn » 06 May 2016, 04:17

Swords work until the Ork player decides he'd like to smash through them. Having a bunch of Swords on broadsides/3K means they're circling about but they can be swept aside by a bunch of Bashas. That's the Firestorm's strength, not the damage output but the survivability at range.

If he ignores the Swords though, then they churn out a lot of firepower especially at <3k even without the AP ammo upgrade. If you're hanging around 6-9k against Orks you can even use Lock On instead of the Brace On Impact on the Swords.


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