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Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Posted: 31 March 2017, 13:12
by StarSauron
Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Well if play vs Tau, they simply shoot your fleet down, Marines ram down.

Escorts are maybe good for scouting, but cant do anything else.
The damage output is way too small to make anything on the battlefield.


In lore seems like there are much more different escort ships.
http://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/Imperial_Navy


I would like to see something able to keep up, it just once you know you can ram them, they are useless.

Re: Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Posted: 01 April 2017, 18:08
by Ashardalon
tau need to swarm fully upgraded escorts or their escorts are worthless, and even then you can just ram strait trough them wiping 500pts of them out in 6 seconds, and thats with chaos, give me a retri and ill do it in 5

marines have hunters... thats it, the rest are overpriced trash

meanwhile imps have a lance escort that can compete with chaos their lance escort, and as long as you upgrade its range and keep it behind your main fleet its amazing, just a cheaper but equally strong version of the marine one

they have a torp escort that is almost ork priced, currently not as good since the fighter cover is kinda bugged, but used to be great for decoy torps
but mostly its free from the navy and swarms of it are deadly, far deadlier then the tau watercaste

they have a regular one that is kinda meh, but not bad at all, just meh

and then they have the most powerful escort in the game the widowmaker
its an entire Emperor in escort form
both chaos and eldar need to do insane engagements to wipe it out or they wont have a chance

so please tell me what they are missing vs tau or marines
homing torps? jealous that someone has something that imps dont have, imps need all the stuff?

Re: Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Posted: 02 April 2017, 14:34
by StarSauron
Ashardalon wrote:tau need to swarm fully upgraded escorts or their escorts are worthless, and even then you can just ram strait trough them wiping 500pts of them out in 6 seconds, and thats with chaos, give me a retri and ill do it in 5

marines have hunters... thats it, the rest are overpriced trash

meanwhile imps have a lance escort that can compete with chaos their lance escort, and as long as you upgrade its range and keep it behind your main fleet its amazing, just a cheaper but equally strong version of the marine one

they have a torp escort that is almost ork priced, currently not as good since the fighter cover is kinda bugged, but used to be great for decoy torps
but mostly its free from the navy and swarms of it are deadly, far deadlier then the tau watercaste

they have a regular one that is kinda meh, but not bad at all, just meh

and then they have the most powerful escort in the game the widowmaker
its an entire Emperor in escort form
both chaos and eldar need to do insane engagements to wipe it out or they wont have a chance

so please tell me what they are missing vs tau or marines
homing torps? jealous that someone has something that imps dont have, imps need all the stuff?




Torpedoes are useless, if the enemy does use fighters.
And other escorts cant do real damage,
because simply ram is enough to kill them off, even as Tau.

In high levels, Marines just spam 2 battle Barges. Your ships don't have the firepower to take them down.
Novas don't work and torpedoes are useless, because they have fighters. If ram your ships loose more HP than them and if you are lucky to target them with your broadside and stay at range, they still are better.


Vs Tau you have just this problem, they are invisible and can shoot guided missiles.
And you can't ram them, they have this push back ability. With frontal weapons easy melt even the biggest ships.
2 Stronghold Demiurg + Cruisers Protector + Light Cruisers Emissary by 700 points battles almost not killable.
Air Caste + cloaked is an overkill.


This new factions don't require skill at all , while in the game we have factions with good escort,
like orc savage gun ship with 48 gun damage, why not give something like him for the empire ?

Tempest Class Frigate
https://www.bfgawiki.com/wiki/Tempest_Class_Frigate

Turbulent Class Heavy Frigate
https://www.bfgawiki.com/wiki/Turbulent ... vy_Frigate

Sound like the ships we need.

Re: Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Posted: 02 April 2017, 16:12
by Ashardalon
so you want escorts forcing people to run (or kite but not really) from the fastest ship class in the game?
and why do you bring up everything except escorts in a discussion about escorts?
what are you going to give chaos? the faction with the worst escorts in the game? the faction that can only use its main escort as a one use probe unlike imps who have useful escorts for almost anything?

but to focus on your deflection
-you need a lot of fighters to be safe from torps, 8 squads according to some, only with my carrier ork fleet can i reliably ignore torps and even those get hit sometimes and that has more then 14 defensive fighter squads
torps arnt a autowin button but they are useful

-i told you to keep your lance escorts behind your main fleet
if they ram trough your main fleet and then ram your escorts wtf are these tau suicidal?
and how is this ramming vulnerability unique to imp escorts, even ork escorts only have 25 front armor
and tau and marine escorts die just as much from ramming
more even since they are the slowest escorts in the game
also a widowmaker isnt doing damage it lets your other ships do dmg

-spam>2 ... wtf?

-novas arnt useless unless you fire them against voids, less useful then against smaller ships but they have their use
i have a retri +2mars build that can wreck BB's if my disruption bombs hit
and the novas also let me wreck their spotting escort so that they dont get a torp volley off before the brawl starts
but yes novas are a small ship killer, you need something extra to make them hurt bigger things

-you expect 2, 6 strong squads to stop all torps? they are big enough to catch an entire volley and those squads will stop half at best

-ramming spikes
my retri has very little trouble ramming BB's to death
thats 1 ship killing 2 more expensive ones

-side point you should explain to me, i would really appreciate it
WHY DOES EVERYONE ALWAYS BRING UP STEALTH ALLOY AS IF IT MATTERS?
you have widowmaker so if they want to shoot they get revealed and they cant run silent permanently like eldar or chaos so they are screwed
if they shoot torps they reveal themselves so you can easily find them, it also means they have no fighter cover or else they are also revealed so easy to torp
at worst go into a cloud and probe with torps to spot their defensive fire
or run a widowmaker silent and spot them
...if them being invisible and useless is that scary

-they need to spot you to fire those torps unlike imp torps
so either you didnt bring a widowmaker or you got hit by a probe

- only vs orks is that push really relevant, it can stop imps for 2 seconds
just high energy turn to correct and boost again
if you can bash trough traktors the push really cant be that bad

-demiurg are the slowest ships in the game, slower then a ork BS
wipe out the C's then kite the demis to death

-again, why would i care about cloaked aircaste?
aircaste favor is strong, true, but the cloaking is irrelevant, especially with imps the only faction that hardcounters them
and even the aircaste thing is only viable if you cant/dont run silent

no, the new factions do require skill
they just also require skill to beat
and imps have the best escorts in the game as is

a savage has a bad accuracy slow reload no ap gun...

Re: Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Posted: 04 April 2017, 20:02
by StarSauron
Imperium can't just say, OK this round I do use escorts so I can defeat enemy Marine fleet, Tau and Orc can.

Other factions can really on own ships or on escorts if fight certain factions.

Let me say its more easy to make by tau. orc and chaos a fleet that can fight vs anybody .
Chaos/Orc needs just the 15000 lances, Tau can go invisible so they don't care get close enough or stay at range.

Imperium does have there its issues. Simply because on range 15000 or in close combat easy to shred if vs orc and marines.
Let me say with new factions they just don't fit in. Tau can easy use demiurg strongholds, so your ships get shred if go close combat or they use the sneaky invisible ships, so you can't even hunt them.

They have way too big variety of ships, compared to the empire.
We need some new ships by the empire. They can use anytime to fight eather too big, or too fast ships.

Re: Will the Imperial Navy get reliable escorts ? Just no chance vs Tau and Marines.

Posted: 04 April 2017, 23:37
by Ashardalon
no faction can play only escorts, not even orks
although i do field a swarm of escorts vs marine data recovery or assassination and usually win
(thats as imps)

also try navy favor, i have outswarmed tau, and while they could only fire torps after spotting imps have no such restriction

and its not easier to build a all round good fleet of those factions
its just that imps need to change their tactics to fit their opponent while the other factions need to play to their strengts and when countered cant really do anything

when you see a demi you kite
i know you probably got into the habit of brawling with your fleet, but imps can kite
while orks spotting a demi need to do crazy shit to have a chanse

the difference is they play to their strengths and thats the only choice they have so you need to play to their weaknesses

the tau with 2 C's that are basically the same have too many choices but the imps that have every choice in the game dont?

and again tau invisible ships have no purpose, as soon as they get spotted the upgrade is gone, and if them never getting spotted means they arnt doing anything
meanwhile imps can get the upgrade that lets them go running silent 100% of the time just like eldar or chaos
just needs a little extra micro

try out the different factions to learn their weakness, it has a good chanse to change your mind