I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

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ilGetUSomDay
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I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby ilGetUSomDay » 05 May 2016, 20:04

Hello, implementation has done jack all for fairness in matchmaking. Now there are plenty of reasons why an elo system will only work some of the time, but that is not the major issue.

the real issue is that every game either i'm smashing some poor sod using new ships (even if he has good ones) or gettin wrecked by lvl 10 maxed out battleships with 70 troop value and what not.

for whatever reason this clear violation of RTS fairness gets swept under the rug by people claiming "its not that big of a deal" so they can continue getting easier wins.

This can be mathematically proven how its unfair for ships with adjustments to be the same points as those without. There is no way to be more glaringly obvious.

Make ship adjustments raise the points of the ship (with scaling so that a battleship weapons upgrade is not = to a light cruisers) and scale the points upward so that the games still stay with approximately the same number of ships.

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Deuzerre
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Deuzerre » 05 May 2016, 20:55

I agree wholeheartedly on this, but at the same time, I'm being realistic and I know this won't be changed anytime soon, if ever.
"Common sense isn't as common as the name would imply"

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Bludfist
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Bludfist » 05 May 2016, 20:59

The presistent fleet system is indeed flawed

The narrative multiplayer idea becomes non existent once you get maxed ships and with it the whole ideology of valuing your ships when it's better to let your ships be destroyed and pay the renown cost rather than risk lost in the warp


Furthermore the idea as stated in the dev q&a that we should build generalist fleets going agaist a faction like IN whom are generalists becuase they have options for every situation and playstyle but cannot excise that due to limited ship slots
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
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Attackmack
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Attackmack » 05 May 2016, 21:09

With the recent "roadmap" laid out its clear the devs do want BFGA to become a competitive multiplayer platform.
That means all form of persistant advantages/disadvantaged from playing will have to go as everyone will have to be on equal terms if competition will ever work.
But this will all take some time for them to implement.
Im not a multiplayer myself (yet) so I cant comment much on that part of the game but I would have to agree the multiplayer fleet system and progression seems like a interesting but extremely flawed idea.

I suggested at one time that the progression in multiplayer would only be compromised of admiral title/rank and maybe special skins and models for the ships (vanity items) but in each and every multiplayer game, each player will have access to all ships and upgrades.
Everyone likes progression and everyone suffers from vanity, but no one likes winning or losing on uneven terms.

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Deuzerre
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Deuzerre » 05 May 2016, 21:30

If I was a game dev, and I wanted an evolutive system, i would work quite differently, with a more permanent approach like Mordheim/Blood bowl games.

You would be able to deploy your whole fleet that has a certain "point cost" linked to it, a point cost that increases with levels and abilities gained. However, whenever your ships get damaged, they're unavailable for a certain number of turns, same for lost in the warp events.

Whenever there's a value difference between each fleets, the player with lower value/cost would get bonuses, like... Minefields, escort ships, rogue traders/mercenaries/allies.

Of course, a limit of ship per class for the fleet
And a great idea would have to have the rest of the fleet as reinforcements.
"Common sense isn't as common as the name would imply"

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Bludfist
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Bludfist » 05 May 2016, 22:31

This game has too many RNG factors to become a true competitive/e-sports game
Chaos walking into Aldorf be like
Spoiler : :
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Gorthunk
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Gorthunk » 05 May 2016, 22:38

Bludfist wrote:This game has too many RNG factors to become a true competitive/e-sports game


That is at least true to the source... but they've added some more RNG factors that were never in the source. It could approach a competitive state like DotA (which is not free of RNG), but they need to go closer to the tabletop for that... no persistent fleets, upgrades cost points, etc.

It could be at least as "truly" competitive as any MOBA or MMO, they just need to sacrifice some of their "design philosophy." From what they've said, that doesn't sound like something they're considering.

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Skanvak
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby Skanvak » 05 May 2016, 22:42

I should say that as ship don't lose all their xp on dying, the whole point of the evolutive system is moot as a top notch fleet will never suffer attrition...and will crush anything but top notch fleet. The idea with any experience system is that you lose the xp when the ship (player in BB, fighter in Mordheim) die. The permanent effect of death make for balancing the system. Here the system is too nice.

Experience is nice in campaign too but rarely in random 1v1 battle (use point value for everything including upgrade). Generally, in BB I prefer to start with blanck team when we begin a league so everyone is faire, the xp will accumulate during the league but not from previous powerleveling.

In a tournament, people will have to start from scrap and see where they get at the end of the tournament (could be fun actually).

I like the experience point and I understand too why it is not working. Still don't see a middle term though.

Make me think that the campaign should pitch unfair battle. I love unfair battle (like Alamo or Rokesdrift or Dien Bien Phu). I will make a post about that but not tonight.
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Skanvak Drakken
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ScinFaxi
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby ScinFaxi » 06 May 2016, 02:47

I think the point really becomes you probably won't be playing people with a level 10 bs vs level 5lc's for very long.

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XViper
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Re: I Hope Some Day These Games Become Fair

Postby XViper » 06 May 2016, 03:01

Didn't you get the memo?

Ravensburg wrote: We wanted, from the beginning, a punishing game where players should face the consequences for their failures. I know frustration in video games is not “l’aire du temps” (the current trend), but that’s just how we wanted BFGA to be

War is not fair, the 40K universe is not friendly, life is hard, and equality obsession in games is not my cup of tea.
So it’s a nope, the main multiplayer mode of BFGA isn’t meant to be a solely competitive experience


It's total crap of course, but that's directly from the devs....so good luck getting your equality and balance.
Our only hope is that the devs can put aside their pride and come to their senses and realise how flawed the current system really is.


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