Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Shaftoe » 04 May 2016, 11:16

Agreed. Nova demands accuracy buff on all ranges ASAP.
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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Lucifronsun » 04 May 2016, 11:27

PerfectJayDread wrote:It boggles my mind how the devs can look at the Mega Kannon and think its fine. You have a weapon that does nearly as much damage as a nova cannon center hit but that's a guaranteed hit and that is just abused by ork players who spam them.


The nova cannon was being used to chunk entire fleets, and was easily killing light cruisers with a single volley all the way across the map. It also entirely ignores armor, and is an AOE weapon. Now, if you want to do 200-800 damage outright to a ship, or multiple ships, you need to use your nova cannons at a shorter range.

I'm not sure if you were around for that time, but it's not something that needs a repeat.The imperial lineup consisted of nothing but stacking nova cannons, and very effectively countering every other fleet with little to no effort. Kind of like what's happening with pulsars now.

The mega kannon by contrast has a max effective range of 3k, orks as a faction have an effective range of 3k.

Its not fun watching my cruiser vanish into thin air


Cruisers arent the most hardy of ships.

and there's no counter play due to Orks absurd control abilities. With the combination of taunt, MWJ, traktors and stasis bombs I seriously don't understand how you are supposed to avoid the point blank money shot.


The only ability available to orks that isn't available to everyone else is the traktor. You're more than capable of using all those things to escape orks. It's not like those are niche abilities either, they're all very powerful and aren't a detriment to take.

Saying there is no counterplay is just untrue.

Lets just use cruisers as an example: they stasis bomb -> you MWJ -> they traktor you closer to them -> you use stasis bomb -> they MWJ. In any circumstance they have the control advantage due to traktors giving them one more option to close the gap.


Orks would never be able to catch properly played fleets without the traktor, especially not the ork battleship, which struggles to do just that even now.

The MK damage should be nerfed outright to start with, then make it so that its alpha damage is reduced but have its rate of fire increase: keeping DPM the same but reducing the alpha.


The orks need great close range power, because close range is the only range orks have, if other factions could beat them out at close range, what would be the point of using them. Mega kannon damage is a pretty important part of that.

Though I would like the less burst more sustained change as well, but that's just personal preference, I find huge burst to be pretty unfair.

As it stands now, the Orks just need one single moment of engagement to erase one of your ships.


If the entire ork fleet manages to get within 3k with their prows, they could do it if rng is on their side. Bear in mind, kannon accuracy goes down to 50% at 3k I believe, there's a minimum of 25% chance to ignore the shot, and with brace, there's a 45% chance to ignore the shot.

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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby BrianDavion » 04 May 2016, 11:44

the novs cannon was buffed in large part, I'm convinced, because of a SFX issue. when beta first hit it wasn't obvious where the nova cannon was going down, so people didn't see the misses and only noticed the direct hits. this lead to a lot of people not realizing how inaccurate it actually was. even as early as launch I know NCs where pretty much only OP if I I A: got lucky. or B: the guy decided to spam escorts and then park em like sardines.

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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Bludfist » 04 May 2016, 12:52

Lucifronsun wrote:
Though I would like the less burst more sustained change as well, but that's just personal preference, I find huge burst to be pretty unfair.




if other faction can out maneuver orks to stay out their preferred 3k engagement range and orks can only be ontop of their targets for intervals at time, then what purpose would sustained dmg serve?

Sustained dmg is better served on ships that can stay on their targets?
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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Stanley Pain » 04 May 2016, 13:23

The funny part is that the Mega Kannon is the same damage across all ships with i, even escorts :o

Mega Kannon alpha would be ok if Orkz didn't also have the best CC and gap closure in the game as well.

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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Bludfist » 04 May 2016, 13:30

Stanley Pain wrote:
Mega Kannon alpha would be ok if Orkz didn't also have the best CC and gap closure in the game as well.

Trakktor cannon is the only unique CC tool orks have? And its pull distance was already nerfed so its only good at pull targets towards you when the enemy ship is already close.

Big Red Button is no where near as good a gap close as All Ahead Full becuase you have more control with the latter and there is no delay before you start boosting and you can preform high energy turns
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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Stanley Pain » 04 May 2016, 13:37

Bludfist wrote:
Stanley Pain wrote:
Mega Kannon alpha would be ok if Orkz didn't also have the best CC and gap closure in the game as well.

Trakktor cannon is the only unique CC tool orks have? And its pull distance was already nerfed so its only good at pull targets towards you when the enemy ship is already close.

Big Red Button is no where near as good a gap close as All Ahead Full becuase you have more control with the latter and there is no delay before you start boosting and you can preform high energy turns


Except that you still cover the most distance, hence it being the best gap closure in the game. Things don't work in a vacuum either. MWJ + Bigger Red Button = Best Gap Closure in the game. Only thing that comes close is a max upgraded range Emperor with MWJ. Couple that with traktor beam being great at both defensive and offensive actions you have a heck of a combo. Add in the fact that Orkz have the cheapest ships means you can bring a metric ton of CC into the game.

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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Ashardalon » 04 May 2016, 13:43

cruiser mega kannon damage 144 remember 75% hit chanse at 1.5k you have to be at 0k to get 100%
imperial cruiser torpedo volley all hit at close range 45*6 so... 270 alpha damage!!!! why is no one complaining !!!
because its not that simple there is a lot of maneuvering in getting one of these shots and sinse orks are horrible at maneuvering they deserve a big alfa damage reward if they manage it and you need to learn to dodge
i do agree on a slicht nova buff tho, dont think it needs a big change but it does need something
currently its not worth firing if it has shields but to get shields down you need to get close but the scatter makes being anywhere near it an extremely bad idea

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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Bludfist » 04 May 2016, 13:48

Neither do everything work in a vaccum like you stated where orks do MWJ + brb you can also MWJ and AAF

Furthermore ork alpha dmg can be countred by supercharge void shields

You can also taunt ork ships to prevent them from focusing on your ships and pulling them out of position, an out of position ork ship cannot get back to the fight without expending important CDs on MWJ or brb/induction cells

Without such catch tools every game vs orks would feel for the ork player like they are fighting kiting eldar where people just lead orks on a merry chase till orks ships just insubordinate and flee
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Re: Why was the Nova Cannon nerfed into the ground when the Mega Kannon exists?

Postby Stanley Pain » 04 May 2016, 13:59

Bludfist wrote:Neither do everything work in a vaccum like you stated where orks do MWJ + brb you can also MWJ and AAF

Furthermore ork alpha dmg can be countred by supercharge void shields

You can also taunt ork ships to prevent them from focusing on your ships and pulling them out of position, an out of position ork ship cannot get back to the fight without expending important CDs on MWJ or brb/induction cells

Without such catch tools every game vs orks would feel for the ork player like they are fighting kiting eldar where people just lead orks on a merry chase till orks ships just insubordinate and flee


You only need to bait the anti CC/Damage once before it's GG for whoever you're fighting. In the game of cooldown attrition the Ork is going to come out on top due to the health of their ships. Super Charged Void shields don't save you from getting rammed, having your ships thrown into each other, etc. I'm fine with Mega Kannons in general I just don't think that every ship from funships on up to the battleship should do the same amount of damage.

Taunt is a really bad counter to Traktor beams tbh. In fact, I want you to taunt. That just makes it easier for me to pick my lead unit :D

Currently Orkz are my favourite because I can bring a boatload of cheap ships with hard CC skills on them and have then play bumper cars with: my ships vs their ships, and their ships vs their ships/mines/etc. Even more fun if you use your allies ships and toss them into the fray :).


edit: Perhaps making Mega Kannon NOT the cheapest option could help out here. A slight tweak in point costs could go a long way towards balance in this regard. I like small tweaks with a wait and see approach vs. broad strokes of changes.


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