Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

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MYNAME?
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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby MYNAME? » 02 May 2016, 01:00

Lucifronsun wrote:
G13 wrote:I haven't been trying to define anything. Manual dexterity is already defined as skill in the dictionary as I showed you.


You see, the trick to using semantics is forcing technicalities on people, thereby attempting to weaken their argument by trying to catch them as being "technically" wrong. Among good and proper arguing enthusiasts, this technique is frowned upon, sometimes harshly, and is considered by many to be the argumental equivalent of the chewbacca defense.

You didn't do that properly, which means you don't do this often, which means there's still hope for you, stop doing it.

You were attempting to force on me your opinion that "manual dexterity" defines "skill" in a game about strategy and tactics. However, the definition states manual dexterity as being :

someone's ​ability to use the ​hands to ​perform a ​difficult ​action ​skilfully and ​quickly so that it ​looks ​easy


However, however, according to this definition, doing something skillfully does not necessarily imply that one is skilled at the thing said "manual dexterity" is being used for. How is that? Skillfully in this context is used as a measure of how well one does something, or how good they are at said action. It does not imply they are necessarily skilled at the use of the tool, as much that they can do this particular action well.

For example, I could be good at doing a knife trick, or spinning a basketball on my finger, but that does not indicate that I am "skilled" at using knives or at playing basketball. According to your own definition, you can not say someone is skilled at something simply because they can do a "trick" with it.

If you looked around more and cherry picked definitions you could've made this more difficult for me to pick apart.

The fact that good manual dexterity translates to better performance at the game, because it is real time, regardless of whether TC is present or not, shows that this skill does relate to the game, and it is by design intent, unless you want to argue that Tindalos didn't mean to make a real time game?


It is a means to an end friend, it they wanted physical ability to matter in some kind of notable capacity, they'd have made a sport instead.

Manual dexterity matters in this game by design intent.


I think you're confusing your own perceptions with "intentional" design, a rather common problem among the lower tiers of the educational scale. The fact one must use their fingers to type into a keyboard in order to issue commands is just the nature of how things are, it is not "intentional" any more than gravity is intentional.

Once the technology for transferring thoughts into commands for a computer becomes a reality, and readily available, you'll see games of this genre make an instant switch over.

You are the one trying to argue that it isn't relevant to who should win when you said that you defined it as "fast clicking" and not "skill."


Yes, and? It is fast clicking, that's all it is.

Anyway the decision has been made regarding TC and ranked play. I'm out.


Decisions can be reversed, and that sounds like concession to me :^)

MYNAME? wrote:Thats not a fact that is your oppinion. I dont see Numbers and statistics on how many Tac Cog users there are. Saying "Those players that need TC to effectivly compete in Ranked" DOES NOT MEAN MORE TC USERS than NONE TC USERS.


Dude chill out.

Adrmial Seraph wrote:Dude, chill out. There's no need to be like this.


Maybe you should shut your fu- I'm just kidding, sorry if you came under the impression that I was being "like this", whatever that means.

I'm actually having a pretty nice time with this, if anything I'm more upset that people are fully quoting long posts to say a sentence or two.

MYNAME? wrote:I hope you do know that TC can be used to "Troll" Cheat right? Also People use TC to cover their weaknesses and to get a free out of jail card in some situations.


First off, "trolling" is not cheating, it's being a dick, get it right. Secondly, just about everything in life can be used to "troll" people, all the technology you constantly use is there to cover your weakness as a flesh sack, and said things you constantly use are no doubt used to bail your ass out of trouble on occasion. You can hardly point a finger at that specifically.

MYNAME? wrote:Of course Bunk Arguments from Idiots is not going to be a Valid argument. What about the Valid ones that are floating around??? I can name 20 from the top of my head.


Subjective.

Yes Both sides have good points but when it comes to Ranked it hits the wall and boils down to TC still is a crutch and troll feature.


"This thing is this way because I said it is, and has no positive values because I said so".

I personally wouldnt have a problem with TACTICAL COGITATOR if it werent so damn broken.


Then go suggest changes.

All TC needs a Hard Nerf (5 second timer + 2 minute CD after use) Id be fine with that but no its still cocked up and thats why i dont agree with it being in Ranked not until they remove the spammability of this ability.


Could it use changes, particularly ones that benefit everyone? Certainly. Is your idea in particular a good one? No, I just wanted to tell you that by the way.

Adrmial Seraph wrote:Isn't that exactly what's happening? You can play unranked and use tac cog. It's only ranked that doesn't have it.


What about people who want to play ranked with tac cog? What about people who want to play unranked without tac cog?

That's why I liken the mentality for tac cog to etitlement


Thats why "you" liken it, mm yes.

because they're not arguing for tac cog to exist period.


People are, just not in this topic. There have been threads with moaning about it, and wanting it removed entirely.

They're arguing for it to exist in a competitive game mode that exists solely to determine who is the better player.


Surely that would be the one who can use the games tools in a superior manner, right? Last I checked, tac cog was part of the game.

You know, a more skilled player is going to win with tac cog there as well, there's no argument for it not to exist there apart from "I don't want it to" or the occasional "Fucking casuals using game mechanics to beat me, better yell on the forums for the devs to remove parts of the game that make me lose."

There's no reason for them to want tac cog in ranked unless they want to play ranked and mitigate a skill requirement to artifically increase their standing on the ladder.


There's no reason for them to not want tac cog in ranked, since the better player will win with tac cog there anyway. Oh oh wait I'm not done actually:

Tindalos got it right and I applaud them for it.


"Someone made a decision that I agree with, it must surely be the "right" decision."


Making TC have its limits is a great idea. Spamming TC is outright annoying as shit.

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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby Luna » 02 May 2016, 01:03

Lucifronsun wrote:
You see, the trick to using semantics is forcing technicalities on people, thereby attempting to weaken their argument by trying to catch them as being "technically" wrong.



Subjective.



Seeing these 2 things used in the same post in an argument makes me want to cry

Lucifronsun
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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby Lucifronsun » 02 May 2016, 01:28

Luna wrote:Seeing these 2 things used in the same post in an argument makes me want to cry


:^)

MYNAME? wrote:Making TC have its limits is a great idea. Spamming TC is outright annoying as shit.


I agree that unnecessary use of it is an irritant. Also please, if you wanna quote someone to say something simple, don't quote the entirety of the post, especially super long ones like mine, just delete the unnecessary bits.

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BrianDavion
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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby BrianDavion » 02 May 2016, 02:07

I don't think I've heard anyone here opposed to some limits on how long TC can be up. 10 seconds at a time is MORE then eneugh. unless the guy's spamming Cobras or something.

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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby Teep » 02 May 2016, 02:38

I've only played 2v2, and to my surprise, I haven't needed the tag cog at all.
However, a happy medium could have been found, like 10s duration, and each person can only activate it 3 times per battle.
Kind of timeouts in sports.

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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby Avlaen » 02 May 2016, 03:02

Teep wrote:I've only played 2v2, and to my surprise, I haven't needed the tag cog at all.
However, a happy medium could have been found, like 10s duration, and each person can only activate it 3 times per battle.
Kind of timeouts in sports.


there will still be tac cog in unranked play.

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BrianDavion
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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby BrianDavion » 02 May 2016, 04:03

Avlaen wrote:
Teep wrote:I've only played 2v2, and to my surprise, I haven't needed the tag cog at all.
However, a happy medium could have been found, like 10s duration, and each person can only activate it 3 times per battle.
Kind of timeouts in sports.


there will still be tac cog in unranked play.


yeah but now that it's been removed from ranked you know people are gopnna whine and bitch about how aweful you are if you so much as tap the space bar while playing unranked. :roll:

I maintain. keep the rules the same across the game, remove tac cog from MP, or keep it in both.

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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby MYNAME? » 02 May 2016, 04:49

BrianDavion wrote:
Avlaen wrote:
Teep wrote:I've only played 2v2, and to my surprise, I haven't needed the tag cog at all.
However, a happy medium could have been found, like 10s duration, and each person can only activate it 3 times per battle.
Kind of timeouts in sports.


there will still be tac cog in unranked play.


yeah but now that it's been removed from ranked you know people are gopnna whine and bitch about how aweful you are if you so much as tap the space bar while playing unranked. :roll:

I maintain. keep the rules the same across the game, remove tac cog from MP, or keep it in both.


No people wont bitch about TC in unranked now that they will have the option to avoid it.

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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby BrianDavion » 02 May 2016, 05:44

MYNAME? wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
Avlaen wrote:
there will still be tac cog in unranked play.


yeah but now that it's been removed from ranked you know people are gopnna whine and bitch about how aweful you are if you so much as tap the space bar while playing unranked. :roll:

I maintain. keep the rules the same across the game, remove tac cog from MP, or keep it in both.


No people wont bitch about TC in unranked now that they will have the option to avoid it.


yes they will. they'll complain any time someone uses it, accusing them of being a "noob" etc. if you think otherwise you greatly under estikmate the stupidity of the internet

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Re: Tactical Cogitator (WILL NOT BE A FEATURE) in Ranked. HURRAY.

Postby zOh » 02 May 2016, 14:02

BrianDavion wrote:
MYNAME? wrote:
BrianDavion wrote:
yeah but now that it's been removed from ranked you know people are gopnna whine and bitch about how aweful you are if you so much as tap the space bar while playing unranked. :roll:

I maintain. keep the rules the same across the game, remove tac cog from MP, or keep it in both.


No people wont bitch about TC in unranked now that they will have the option to avoid it.


yes they will. they'll complain any time someone uses it, accusing them of being a "noob" etc. if you think otherwise you greatly under estikmate the stupidity of the internet


Who cares if they complain? Use it anyway. The whole point is that you have the option to use it in unranked, and if douchenozzles call you a noob, just ignore them and tell them to go play ranked.


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